• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Mango said:
Shelly:
Appraisers have a license to protect, and it's high risk for them to be "bought" to bring in a price. I am sure there are some unscrupulous ones out there, but eventually, if they start bringing prices over-valued, they get banned from lists that banks use as approved appraisers.

And (during the boom) if they DIDN'T pump up the value to certain "predetermined" value they were black-balled by the RE industry. This type of collusion that went on behind the scenes during, and contributed to, the RE boom will soon be coming to light more and more as prices start to drop.
 

spinDrAtl

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
367
2
SHELLY said:
And (during the boom) if they DIDN'T pump up the value to certain "predetermined" value they were black-balled by the RE industry. This type of collusion that went on behind the scenes during, and contributed to, the RE boom will soon be getting coming to light more and more as prices start to drop.

Do you have firsthand knowledge of this? Please give us examples of blackballing and collusion.

A property is worth what a buyer and seller agree to in their transaction, otherwise property values would never change as every transaction would be based precisely on the last one. Prices rise and fall because buyers and sellers willingness to buy and sell at different price levels changes. That determines the market.
 

DBOldford

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
990
15
Napa Valley, CA
Shelly, I can never figure out your basis for conclusions, whether it is wishful thinking or just myopic. It is interesting to me that you seem to view the SoWal market from the perspective of a service worker hoping to purchase a Gulf front or view home, live and work down there on $15/hr. wages. That has been out of reach for years and that opportunity will not return in SoWal, for better or for worse. And the investors are not gone, they are watching and waiting to see some activity to feed momentum. I know because I am one of them and I talk regularly with many others so inclined.

We considered and then reconsidered selling our property this year and interviewed several local realtors in the process. We told them that when we do sell the house, we want to price it to sell, not to languish on the market and get stale. The prices quoted translated into a range representing roughly three times what we paid for the property. So that is hardly lame. Most real estate investors, even when their timing is not great, don't enter the market just once and then quoth, "Nevermore." They are typically well informed people who know this is a game one doesn't play in short pants. They have had great success and marginal experiences, or even losses in the mix.

Finally, I want to say something on behalf of realtors. They work very hard for their money and are a bargain compared to paying an attorney's fees for other than reviewing the transaction work. If you start nipping and tucking at your realtor's commission, you are undermining their incentive to move your property. And "For Sale by Owner" or other imitations of this only tell a potential buyer that they should offer a corresponding amount less than your list price, while seriously restricting the list of suitable buyers that will see your property. This hardly ever works, in the long run.

SoWal will be fine and the recovery won't take years. Even the most serious true real estate recessions don't play out over years and years. Your world has just changed, Shelly. Learn to cope if you're going to keep playing. Hurricanes didn't begin in 2004 and they will not drive the real estate market over more than a season for those in the know. The price of gasoline is not going to make the difference in whether someone drives to SoWal to vacation. I mean, have you noticed the new rates for airline tickets, or even the increase in rates for Disney World, for that matter? We are still a remarkable bargain for the most discriminating of vacationers.

In my estimation, here are the factors most likely to adversely effect the SoWal market for real estate:

(1) Changing interest rates or changes in the capital gains tax laws,
especially if such changes involve a FL State income tax (yikes).
(2) A direct hit from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane (read=redevelopment opps)
(3) Overbuilding, especially if infrastructure is not adequately provided for
and at least partially financed by those who stand to benefit most.
(4) Increases in bed taxes, so that SoWal is conspicuously higher than
neighboring counties.
(5) Loss of confidence related to delays with the new airport, environmental
degradation, eroded qualilty of life, poor media relations, etc.

Where's your confidence, Shelly? And who's yo' Daddy, after all? Come on...'fess up! :dunno:
 

destinsm

Beach Lover
May 23, 2006
92
1
Donna,

A different view on your Realtor friends you defend in previous post....

Consumer group goes after real estate industry
Consumer Federation of America says home buyers pay higher prices because 'cartel' stifles competition.
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer
June 19, 2006: 2:59 PM EDT

http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/19/real_estate/real_estate_cartel/index.htm?cnn=yes

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I especially like how the NAR admits the following...

The National Association of Realtors released a comment on the CFA report calling the industry, "One of the most competitive business environments in the world, characterized by low barriers to entry..."

Amazing that there is still an industry out there requiring no proffessional education, a ~2 week class to learn the biz, and still has the power to monopolize a business that pays their members 6%+ of a sale on housing prices that have doubled in the last few years...

The NAR is a shame to the RE industry in what we are told is a capitilistic country...
 

Beachbummette

SoWal Insider
Jul 16, 2005
5,742
209
Birmingham and Watersound
Donna,
Very well said. I agree with you. I also think that you are right about why some people are so negative about the market.

We bought in for the long haul (started about 6-7 years ago and have not bought anything in two years) and just plan on sitting on our investments for a long time to come.

Even if we sold today at what some think are fair market values it was still a very good investment.
 

spinDrAtl

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
367
2
There is nothing wrong with a tiered variety of services in the real estate industry. Not saying that many realtors don't work hard and provide valuable services, but many sellers do not need full service and should not be held hostage to 6% commissions, especially when some properties sell in a similar manner to those priced many thousands of dollars less. If the work required is similar, why should a seller pay more solely based on sales price? When you move into a $ amount where it takes a special type of buyer and special marketing, that is where realtors can earn their high commissions.

If someone is determined to sell fsbo or with a discount realtor, the best way to do that is arm yourself with a VALID appraisal to let potential buyers know that your property is priced fairly, especially when prices are not moving up (or down) on a daily basis.
 

Bob

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2004
10,366
1,391
O'Wal
SHELLY said:
I'd use the one that was the predetermined target number I paid the appraiser to hit?
If you use an appraisal that will not stand lender review, you are wasting your time and money.
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
spinDrAtl said:
Do you have firsthand knowledge of this? Please give us examples of blackballing and collusion.

Mortgage Fraud Huge in Florida FBI Report Says

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's recent Financial Crimes Report states that mortgage fraud is a "pervasive and growing" problem in the current market climate, especially in the Sunshine State. In fact, the report singles out Florida as one of the nation's top 10 hot spots for mortgage fraud, along with Georgia, South Carolina, Illinois, Missouri, Michigan, California, Nevada, Colorado and Utah.

How Widespread Appraisal Fraud Puts Homeowners at Risk

Up to half of all appraisers have reported feeling pressures from lenders or brokers to overstate property values. Many appraisers go along with these pressures out of fear of losing future work. Appraisers who have not complied with such pressures report not being paid for work and being blacklisted by lenders and brokers.

Realty Times: Appraisal Fraud Most Likely Greater Than Reported

Realty Times: The Appraisal Crisis and the FBI


Mortgage News: Appraisal Fraud and the Need to Sort Out the Victims from the Perps

The petition states in part "Lenders have individuals within their ranks who, as a normal course of business, apply pressure on appraisers to hit or exceed a predetermined value," and lists six of what it terms "many types of pressures" that are brought to bear on appraisers:

The withholding of business if we refuse to inflate values;
The withholding of business if we refuse to guarantee a predetermined value;
The withholding ob business if we refuse to ignore deficiencies in the property;
Refusing to pay for an appraisal that does not give them what they want;
"Black listing" honest appraisers in order to use "rubber stamp" appraisals, etc.
The petition requests that "action be taken to hold lenders responsible and provide for a penalty on anyone who engages in the practice of pressuring appraisers to do dishonest appraisals that do not provide for independent judgments."

As of April 21, the petition had 8,326 signatures.

--------------------------

and on, and on, and on....

First hand knowledge...I'll plead the 5th for right now.
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Donna said:
Finally, I want to say something on behalf of realtors. They work very hard for their money and are a bargain compared to paying an attorney's fees for other than reviewing the transaction work. If you start nipping and tucking at your realtor's commission, you are undermining their incentive to move your property.

The world has indeed changed...and that included the "World of the Realtor (tm)"

Many, many years ago (before technology) the realtors would bust their hump to move houses and deserved every last penny of commission. My realtor drove miles and miles viewing countless houses; checking out neighborhoods; mailing me copies of the local papers; looking up info on jobs, schools, shopping and churches in the communites and calling me with answers (and then asking, "What else would you like to know, how about the cost of garbage pickup?"); taking me and my spouse from house-to-house-to-house (and back again for one last look), offering me lunch, giving me cold drinks; always a smile, even when it was 98-degrees and 100% humidity; calling me at work to say, "I've found 2 more houses I think you should look at before you decide." She was a hero...she deserved every single penny of her commission.

Times have changed--especially during the housing boom: point, click, you'd better bid higher or you're not going to get it. "Great, the seller accepted your offer--that will be 6% please" What's up with that???
 

Cork On the Ocean

directionally challenged
Twitching as I jump into this and I apologize that I haven't completely read the diatribes that we've bounced around so many times. Just a quick observation,

Sales are picking up over last year and early this year. Buyers are out there. Most want to steal a property and they are stealing them. IE:

Sold 2 lots for 350K each early 2004. Flipped for $589K late 2004.
Just put a comparable lot under contract.
Asking was 325K. We offered 270K
Seller countered at 310K
We countered and got it at $279K

2 other buyers this week. No contract but 1 is pretty sure. They're on their second trip in. Both are buying to rent and hold.
My experience is that there's several sellers that have dropped very low. The buyers are choosing the lowest priced property and then lowballing it.

The upside is that my house just appraised for $100K more than it did a year ago. (and no I didn't pay an unscrupulous appraiser) .

Spoke to another realtor yesterday. His take was that we are at the bottom. I don't know if I agree with that but I definitely am feeling that buyers are coming back. There are some investors out there that understand the cyclic nature of the market and buy low, sell high.

OK back to the lounge for some funn.
 
New posts


Shop SoWal Photos

Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter