I've kept my mouth shut, but can't take it anymore

[Minnie]

Politics is really no different than anything in which personal choice comes into play.

Regardless of one's personal opinion of Bush, there is truly no way to know that anyone else would or could have done better. So much is out of the control of one person.

Same with Obama, he truly will not be able to "fix" everything, even if he wants to. I sincerely doubt Bush wanted things to happen as they did, anymore than people discussing politics on this forum wanted to hurt others. But it happened.

Does that mean everyone will agree, of course not and there in lies the problem. To many people Bush has not been the loser that many see him as. Many people think he did some things right. He made mistakes, he has even admitted that.

Obama will too, it will be impossible not to. He will also anger some of his strongest supporters, possibly soon by picking Hillary for a cabinet post.

Also it is all in one's perspective. Some are against same sex marriages, abortion, stem cell research, higher taxes, lower taxes, and on and on. But for every person against something, someone else is for it. Who is right? In my opinion both are right. That is what America is about. Each person having the right to choose and believe as they personally feel is right for them.

As to the actual election, the majority wins. Does that make the other side losers, certainly not. And I think Obama knows that without the help of the other side, he can't accomplish all he wants to.

It is all perspective and it's different for each person and I got a view of that recently. This past week I had to have my car inspected for my license plate renewal. I got lucky and caught them on a very slow day when no one was in line.

Due to that, the inspector, a talkative black gentleman, asked me about the election. Before I could reply, he said, " I bet you think I voted for Obama"

"Well", he said, "I didn't". He said, "I can't trust a man that pretends to be something he isn't and he ain't the first black President, he is biracial."

So it made me really think about the fact that our perception of things, even our choice for President, is possibly more about who we are and less about who the candidates are.

 

[30ashopper]

Or not. We spend more money on the military and defense than on anything else.

The 2008 budget - $386B on Medicare, $209 on Medicaid and Schip.

$481B Department of Defense, $145B Global War on Terror, approx. $200B in appropriations for Iraq and Afganistan wars.

$595 vs. $826 and I didn't include military items like nuclear warheads that are hidden in other parts of the budget.

I said war spending was small comapared to programs like Medicare and Medicaid - 200 billion compared over a 1.6 trillion on SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and Welfare.

 

[scooterbug44]

We spent NEGATIVE $320B on Social Security this year - we collected $927B and paid out $608B.

 

[30ashopper]

I'm not sure why we're arguing about this scooter so I'm going to drop the subject. My original statement was that Bush cut our taxes. Obama has stated publically he wants to keep the Bush tax cuts below a certain income threshold - 250K or so. I don't believe that, but we'll see. Until then we can all continue to enjoy the lower tax rates Bush created. (assuming you make enough money to pay taxes apposed to collecting a check.)

 

[Chickpea]

I'm not sure why we're arguing about this scooter so I'm going to drop the subject. My original statement was that Bush cut our taxes. Obama has stated publically he wants to keep the Bush tax cuts below a certain income threshold - 250K or so. I don't believe that, but we'll see. Until then we can all continue to enjoy the lower tax rates Bush created. (assuming you make enough money to pay taxes apposed to collecting a check.)

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

 

[traderx]

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

See post #137.

 

[30ashopper]

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

Can you connect the economic news you speak of with lower tax rates? I'd be interested in that because AFAICT there's no relation between the two.

 

[Chickpea]

I understand difference between tax cuts and tax RATE cuts - I am just so weary of having listened specifically to Republicans in this past administration talk about this so called trickle down economics that was supposed to happen with the wealthiest americans getting a tax rate cut - IMHO it was nothing short of insane to continue this during a time of war.

I also deplore the deliberate misleading comments made by the McCain camp about Obama's tax camp (frankly both campaigns distorted their opponents' pledges quite a bit BUT in my opinion it was much more severe on the part of McCain than the other way).

IF we are to get out of this economic mess that we are in we are all going to have more. Full stop. Period.

 

[30ashopper]

I understand difference between tax cuts and tax RATE cuts - I am just so weary of having listened specifically to Republicans in this past administration talk about this so called trickle down economics that was supposed to happen with the wealthiest americans getting a tax rate cut - IMHO it was nothing short of insane to continue this during a time of war.

All income groups enjoyed a tax rate cut under Bush, what the heck does trickle down theory have to do with that? Trickle down theory assumes money given back to top income brackets trickles down to all income groups, but Bush cut tax rates for everyone???

I also deplore the deliberate misleading comments made by the McCain camp about Obama's tax camp (frankly both campaigns distorted their opponents' pledges quite a bit BUT in my opinion it was much more severe on the part of McCain than the other way).

FYI Chickpea, the election is over.. isn't it time to move on? Why are you still obsessing over McCain?

IF we are to get out of this economic mess that we are in we are all going to have more. Full stop. Period.

Huh?

Can you connect the economic news you speak of with lower tax rates? I'd be interested in that because AFAICT there's no relation between the two.

??

 

[Chickpea]

I have no idea how to cut and paste all quotes but here goes:

1) Funny comment about my obsessing about McCain - I honestly wish him well and have wasted no time thinking about him - just thrilled about Obama - the ONLY reason I brought him up was because the issue of taxes was raised in this thread and there is a lot of misunderstanding about this IMHO.

2) My comment about the trickle down theory was in response to having heard the Bush Administration use this over and over again over to explain the economic stimulus packages they doled out AS WELL about being lectured that giving tax rate cuts to the wealthiest was a sure way to stimulate the economy. IMO - there were/are more pressing needs.

3) I think $$$ lost in both of these have not helped our current situation.

If we want to contribute to the long-term health of the our economy, I believe public investment rather than more permanent tax cuts for business and the wealthy should have the priority (I concur with Obama here). Today, and I think we would all agree here, the US has urgent, crying needs -- for improving most public infrastructure, school buildings, revamping core industries in dire need of innovation and capital, some social services like quality child care, health care, and many other areas.

We are told that tax cuts are designed to stimulate the economy, and to reduce government in the long run. That's the wrong policy at a time when I think (even though I HATE it) that the need for government has never been made more clear: when we are mired in 2 costly wars and when we have the additional burden of crumbling banks, whole industries, etc...

Over the past years like many of you, I have read many articles about the potential risk of the decrease in investment spending leading us towards a recession - for a long while we have been buffered by realizing its full potent extent because of the strength of consumer spending - this has now of course, also greatly suffered and come to a grinding halt.