I've kept my mouth shut, but can't take it anymore

I know how much you enjoy these discussions. I am just wondering if some of the people that have been posting about politics in the last year went back and read some of the posts they posted, would they still be proud of what they wrote? It seems to me that even though their candidate has won the vote of the people they are still not happy.

Miss Kitty,
I am very happy and not remotely interested in bashing any Republican OR in gloating. Just relieved and thrilled!!

Miss Kitty,
I am very happy and not remotely interested in bashing any Republican OR in gloating. Just relieved and thrilled!!

Can you explain post #118?

Can you explain post #118?

in the story,i am the little boy, and you are the texan....we live happily ever after and buy cadillacs.

Can you explain post #118?

Not sure what you are asking? What is there to explain? My main point in that post was that I was proud that I have taught my daughter to be respectful of the office of the presidency and that I found it tragic to have seen children be told that a potential Obama presidency was a dangerous threat to this country.

in the story,i am the little boy, and you are the texan....we live happily ever after and buy cadillacs.

Lol....Bob, you are one of a kind.

I miss those Detroit fins...

Poppy, I did not get the "nothing is going to get better" idea from his/her post, I took from it that they were happy with their life and that no matter what happened nothing could take that joy away. I saw a positive, not a negative.

IW, I couldn't agree more.

it's so sad that someone who says he wanted to give obama a chance even though he didn't vote for him decided that prior to his inauguration, he had to find another way to discredit him. obama has withstood all the hateful untruths that were spun throughout his campaign by republicans, including mccain and palin along with the pundits and has come out victorious. he has 4 years to make his mark, either through good judgment or by screwing up as bush did all 8 years. we can all comment on bush because we now have his track record. for god's sake, let obama make his, good or bad. he certainly won't be able to right all the wrongs committed by bush and the republicans these past years but he deserves a chance. anyone jumping all over him now is just looking for the negative because they can't stand the fact that he won. get over yourself.

this makes a lot of sense to me. I wish people could just get over it. this particular election was so emotional and so historic that perhaps it has its own special reactions from folks from both sides. I guess we all need to be patient and hope that people can come to terms with President Obama. I surely hope so.

I know how I felt when Bush was elected (depressed and sad. not able to understand the choice of at least half of voting americans). we voiced our predictions (negative). somehow I did manage to convince myself (stupidly) that Bush would surround himself with excellence and manage at least a mediocre administration with good success for our country. but deep down, I could not help the feeling of dread that persisted in my whole being. we can't help what we believe and feel. though geo is right - we can inform ourselves with a variety of sources, and try to overlook the kinds of sources with absolutely no value whatsoever (hate/fear based emails - I've seen a whole new set of them lately - will they ever end?). everyone needs time to get over themselves.

I threw this out there-



I believe the fearmongering of the McCain campaign worked. I believe we have a whole bunch of folks in this country who are afraid of the socialist, the communist, the liberal, the terrorist, the celebrity, the "messiah", the one, "that one".

I don't believe folks are afraid of opposing viewpoints on issues. I don't believe folks are afraid of a tax rate reset for the rich to Clinton levels. I don't believe folks are afraid of a president elect because they didn't vote for him.

I blame the negative ads.

yep.

Miss Kitty,
I am very happy and not remotely interested in bashing any Republican OR in gloating. Just relieved and thrilled!!

I am also positively happy and hopeful. but, debate can continue and hopefully in a respectful way, as you always do Chickpea.

someone asked why Palin should be in the limelight still? from what I've seen, she has ramped up air time and interviews and is exploring her potential as a leader in the GOP party. as a result, she will remain out there for continuing debate - especially within her own party. she remains a subject for much discussion for those who are interested in how the GOP will proceed in the coming months, years, etc. and so it makes sense to me that the media and many citizens will continue to cover Palin and form opinions about her.

also, CCK mentioned that the conseratives have left sowal.com. I have not seen this happen and I hope it doesn't anytime soon. I do believe this board reflects the actual election very closely as far as Obama supporters (many are conservatives by the way) and McCain supporters. But we continue to maintian a huge range of folks around here representing all sides and beliefs and opinions. its what I love about these discussions. We've all learned and grown and listened and shouted and pouted and whined and we've been glad, and mad and sometimes sad. we've had much to share. most of all, we've learned a little bit about how to have these discussions in a meaningful and productive way, despite differences. I know i have learned from every single one of you. thank you thank you thank you.

and yes. there have been some threads from the depths of hell. there are always thread titles and subjects that are questionable as far as relevance and fairness. everyone here is different and express themselves in many different ways... and we all have reactions or posts we aren't proud of. we can always try to move on and do better, can't we?

Let us please not forget that over 63 million voted for Obama and many were exactly like me - we did not view Obama as a saint who could do no wrong - we were just quite excited about someone we view as incredibly intelligent, well educated, analytical, motivating and exciting and I for one am greatly looking forward to the next 4 years (and if he is good to the next 8). This does not mean he will not stumble or make mistakes but my bets for now are solidly on him.

.... I personally can do nothing about those people who truely fear him (like the 25% of texans who think he is muslim) - I am just really comforted that the majority in the country wish him well, are rooting for him to succeed and most of all, I am just so proud that our daughters saw us get passionate and excited about a candidate without tearing his opponent apart.

thanks for sharing your passion and for always providing great insight and inspiration Chickpea. I admire how you express yourself so completely but always with respect for all.

and for those who need to vent about the election outcome, and about their experiences on this board, perhaps this thread can be useful after all. we've all been there.

thanks for sharing your passion and for always providing great insight and inspiration Chickpea.

and for those who need to vent about the election outcome, and about their experiences on this board, perhaps this thread can be useful after all. we've all been there.

There's nothing to vent about at this point. This election for me came down to a single issue, taxes. The day Obama or any politician raises them or eliminates the social security tax cap I'll start venting. Until then, we can all continue to bask in the after glow of the across the board tax cuts Bush enacted in 2001 and 2003. ;-)

There's nothing to vent about at this point. This election for me came down to a single issue, taxes. The day Obama or any politician raises them or eliminates the social security tax cap I'll start venting. Until then, we can all continue to bask in the after glow of the across the board tax cuts Bush enacted in 2001 and 2003. ;-)

What glow? He may have cut some taxes but he also borrowed money to go to war. The long term cost of that money will far exceed any pain felt from a slight increase in taxes to finance the war.

We really need to distinguish between tax cuts and tax rate cuts. In 2000, the last year of Clinton's term, total tax receipts were $3.1 trillion. In 2007, total tax receipts were $4.2 trillion. A deficit is always created by excessive spending.

We really need to distinguish between tax cuts and tax rate cuts.

Fair point...

In 2000, the last year of Clinton's term, total tax receipts were $3.1 trillion. In 2007, total tax receipts were $4.2 trillion. A deficit is always created by excessive spending.

I thought a deficit was created when spending is greater than receipts irrespective of whatever label we assign to spending. Kinda subjective if you ask me...



In other words-
It is possible for spending to be viewed as excessive and still have a surplus just as it is possible to view spending as not being excessive but still end up with a deficit...

What glow? He may have cut some taxes but he also borrowed money to go to war. The long term cost of that money will far exceed any pain felt from a slight increase in taxes to finance the war.

I agree, we shouldn't have spent so much. However, I'll disagree with your argument that debt incured is entirely the result of going to war. It's the result of government spending in general, especially programs like Medicaid and Medicare. The war is a drop in the bucket comparatively.

Regardless, Bush doesn't exactly have a corner on the market when it comes to deficit spending, and as a percentage of GDP, the debt hasn't risen all that much.

You can rip on Bush all you want, but nothing you say will change the fact that he lowered our taxes signifigantly. My suggestion to you would be.. enjoy that while it lasts. With Democrats in charge, it won't last forever.

I agree, we shouldn't have spent so much. However, I'll disagree with your argument that debt incured is entirely the result of going to war. It's the result of government spending in general, especially programs like Medicaid and Medicare. The war is a drop in the bucket comparatively.

Or not. We spend more money on the military and defense than on anything else.

The 2008 budget - $386B on Medicare, $209 on Medicaid and Schip.

$481B Department of Defense, $145B Global War on Terror, approx. $200B in appropriations for Iraq and Afganistan wars.

$595 vs. $826 and I didn't include military items like nuclear warheads that are hidden in other parts of the budget.

Politics is really no different than anything in which personal choice comes into play.

Regardless of one's personal opinion of Bush, there is truly no way to know that anyone else would or could have done better. So much is out of the control of one person.

Same with Obama, he truly will not be able to "fix" everything, even if he wants to. I sincerely doubt Bush wanted things to happen as they did, anymore than people discussing politics on this forum wanted to hurt others. But it happened.

Does that mean everyone will agree, of course not and there in lies the problem. To many people Bush has not been the loser that many see him as. Many people think he did some things right. He made mistakes, he has even admitted that.

Obama will too, it will be impossible not to. He will also anger some of his strongest supporters, possibly soon by picking Hillary for a cabinet post.

Also it is all in one's perspective. Some are against same sex marriages, abortion, stem cell research, higher taxes, lower taxes, and on and on. But for every person against something, someone else is for it. Who is right? In my opinion both are right. That is what America is about. Each person having the right to choose and believe as they personally feel is right for them.

As to the actual election, the majority wins. Does that make the other side losers, certainly not. And I think Obama knows that without the help of the other side, he can't accomplish all he wants to.

It is all perspective and it's different for each person and I got a view of that recently. This past week I had to have my car inspected for my license plate renewal. I got lucky and caught them on a very slow day when no one was in line.

Due to that, the inspector, a talkative black gentleman, asked me about the election. Before I could reply, he said, " I bet you think I voted for Obama"

"Well", he said, "I didn't". He said, "I can't trust a man that pretends to be something he isn't and he ain't the first black President, he is biracial."

So it made me really think about the fact that our perception of things, even our choice for President, is possibly more about who we are and less about who the candidates are.

Or not. We spend more money on the military and defense than on anything else.

The 2008 budget - $386B on Medicare, $209 on Medicaid and Schip.

$481B Department of Defense, $145B Global War on Terror, approx. $200B in appropriations for Iraq and Afganistan wars.

$595 vs. $826 and I didn't include military items like nuclear warheads that are hidden in other parts of the budget.

I said war spending was small comapared to programs like Medicare and Medicaid - 200 billion compared over a 1.6 trillion on SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and Welfare.

We spent NEGATIVE $320B on Social Security this year - we collected $927B and paid out $608B.

I'm not sure why we're arguing about this scooter so I'm going to drop the subject. My original statement was that Bush cut our taxes. Obama has stated publically he wants to keep the Bush tax cuts below a certain income threshold - 250K or so. I don't believe that, but we'll see. Until then we can all continue to enjoy the lower tax rates Bush created. (assuming you make enough money to pay taxes apposed to collecting a check.)

I'm not sure why we're arguing about this scooter so I'm going to drop the subject. My original statement was that Bush cut our taxes. Obama has stated publically he wants to keep the Bush tax cuts below a certain income threshold - 250K or so. I don't believe that, but we'll see. Until then we can all continue to enjoy the lower tax rates Bush created. (assuming you make enough money to pay taxes apposed to collecting a check.)

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

See post #137.

I do not understand why some talk about tax cuts as if it is all that matters - just look at the all good these lesser taxes have made..... the economic news gets more and more grim by the day

Can you connect the economic news you speak of with lower tax rates? I'd be interested in that because AFAICT there's no relation between the two.

I understand difference between tax cuts and tax RATE cuts - I am just so weary of having listened specifically to Republicans in this past administration talk about this so called trickle down economics that was supposed to happen with the wealthiest americans getting a tax rate cut - IMHO it was nothing short of insane to continue this during a time of war.

I also deplore the deliberate misleading comments made by the McCain camp about Obama's tax camp (frankly both campaigns distorted their opponents' pledges quite a bit BUT in my opinion it was much more severe on the part of McCain than the other way).

IF we are to get out of this economic mess that we are in we are all going to have more. Full stop. Period.

I understand difference between tax cuts and tax RATE cuts - I am just so weary of having listened specifically to Republicans in this past administration talk about this so called trickle down economics that was supposed to happen with the wealthiest americans getting a tax rate cut - IMHO it was nothing short of insane to continue this during a time of war.

All income groups enjoyed a tax rate cut under Bush, what the heck does trickle down theory have to do with that? Trickle down theory assumes money given back to top income brackets trickles down to all income groups, but Bush cut tax rates for everyone???

I also deplore the deliberate misleading comments made by the McCain camp about Obama's tax camp (frankly both campaigns distorted their opponents' pledges quite a bit BUT in my opinion it was much more severe on the part of McCain than the other way).

FYI Chickpea, the election is over.. isn't it time to move on? Why are you still obsessing over McCain?

IF we are to get out of this economic mess that we are in we are all going to have more. Full stop. Period.

Huh?

Can you connect the economic news you speak of with lower tax rates? I'd be interested in that because AFAICT there's no relation between the two.

??

I have no idea how to cut and paste all quotes but here goes:

1) Funny comment about my obsessing about McCain - I honestly wish him well and have wasted no time thinking about him - just thrilled about Obama - the ONLY reason I brought him up was because the issue of taxes was raised in this thread and there is a lot of misunderstanding about this IMHO.

2) My comment about the trickle down theory was in response to having heard the Bush Administration use this over and over again over to explain the economic stimulus packages they doled out AS WELL about being lectured that giving tax rate cuts to the wealthiest was a sure way to stimulate the economy. IMO - there were/are more pressing needs.

3) I think $$$ lost in both of these have not helped our current situation.

If we want to contribute to the long-term health of the our economy, I believe public investment rather than more permanent tax cuts for business and the wealthy should have the priority (I concur with Obama here). Today, and I think we would all agree here, the US has urgent, crying needs -- for improving most public infrastructure, school buildings, revamping core industries in dire need of innovation and capital, some social services like quality child care, health care, and many other areas.

We are told that tax cuts are designed to stimulate the economy, and to reduce government in the long run. That's the wrong policy at a time when I think (even though I HATE it) that the need for government has never been made more clear: when we are mired in 2 costly wars and when we have the additional burden of crumbling banks, whole industries, etc...

Over the past years like many of you, I have read many articles about the potential risk of the decrease in investment spending leading us towards a recession - for a long while we have been buffered by realizing its full potent extent because of the strength of consumer spending - this has now of course, also greatly suffered and come to a grinding halt.

It is a myth that Bush lowered taxes. The federal government in 2007 collected $1 trillion more in revenues than it did in 2000. The rich paid more, not less.