Led away in Handcuffs

BeachSiO2,

Earlier, you mentioned that the TDC funding comes from bed tax, yada, yada, yada, and that the TDC places trash recepticals on all of the beaches (I believe that is what you said, but please correct me if I'm wrong.)

According to the Florida Constitution, it "prohibits the use of public funds for a private purpose." Since bed taxes serve to maintain the public's beaches and accesses to the beaches and Bay, wouldn't those funds be considered, "public?" I still maintain that the trash cans maintained by the TDC are public, and by the FL Constitution, are illegal for use on private property. If the the TDC is obeying the laws, the beaches, upon which the TDC trashcans are placed, must be "public."

I await your reply.

BeachSiO2,

Earlier, you mentioned that the TDC funding comes from bed tax, yada, yada, yada, and that the TDC places trash recepticals on all of the beaches (I believe that is what you said, but please correct me if I'm wrong.)

According to the Florida Constitution, it "prohibits the use of public funds for a private purpose." Since bed taxes serve to maintain the public's beaches and accesses to the beaches and Bay, wouldn't those funds be considered, "public?" I still maintain that the trash cans maintained by the TDC are public, and by the FL Constitution, are illegal for use on private property. If the the TDC is obeying the laws, the beaches, upon which the TDC trashcans are placed, must be "public."

I await your reply.

SmilingJoe - ALL TAXES ARE CONSIDERED PUBLIC FUNDS.

SmilingJoe - ALL TAXES ARE CONSIDERED PUBLIC FUNDS.

So it sounds like you are suggesting that the TDC is in violation of the Florida Constitution, or, that the beaches, where the TDC trash recepticals are placed, are for public use. Is that correct?

BeachSiO2,

Earlier, you mentioned that the TDC funding comes from bed tax, yada, yada, yada, and that the TDC places trash recepticals on all of the beaches (I believe that is what you said, but please correct me if I'm wrong.)

According to the Florida Constitution, it "prohibits the use of public funds for a private purpose." Since bed taxes serve to maintain the public's beaches and accesses to the beaches and Bay, wouldn't those funds be considered, "public?" I still maintain that the trash cans maintained by the TDC are public, and by the FL Constitution, are illegal for use on private property. If the the TDC is obeying the laws, the beaches, upon which the TDC trashcans are placed, must be "public."

I await your reply.

I think someone from the TDC may have said their funding comes from bed taxes etc. but I would agree that is my understanding also. Specifically, for the TDC, I would check with them about whether or where and what they should be spending their funds on the trash cans since I don't work there.

On the issue regarding public funds for private purposes regarding trash pick-up. Is not the trash picked up at my house by waste management a use of public funds for private purposes? Waste management is paid for through taxes also.

On the issue regarding public funds for private purposes regarding trash pick-up. Is not the trash picked up at my house by waste management a use of public funds for private purposes? Waste management is paid for through taxes also.

That is a fair question. Waste Management is not contracted to provide all property owners with garbage cans, yet the TDC is purchasing and erecting trash cans on property which is considered private, according to some deeds. The collection of the garbage would be a different issue.

That is a fair question. Waste Management is not contracted to provide all property owners with garbage cans, yet the TDC is purchasing and erecting trash cans on property which is considered private, according to some deeds. The collection of the garbage would be a different issue.

Good point also, but not so fast . Two things I can see: health and safety, and ownership. It is my understanding that the TDC is the county agency the County Commission has charged with keeping all the beaches clean. In order to do that effectively, they probably can't go and stop and pick up every piece of trash. As has been pointed out by many people (including you ;-) ), the trash accumulates on the beach even though the TDC cleans it. Since trash knows no boundaries and it will blow around and go into the water floating offshore and to other beaches, a more time effective and efficient solution is to install trash cans.

In the city I grew up, they provide trash cans that you must use and maintain that continue to belong the property of the City. Since the beach trash cans still belong to the County then there has not been a trash can "given" to a private individual. The TDC has just made it easier on themselves to do their work.

It's my understanding from some old timers prior to the TDC it was the road crew who maintained the beaches

So it sounds like you are suggesting that the TDC is in violation of the Florida Constitution, or, that the beaches, where the TDC trash recepticals are placed, are for public use. Is that correct?

Maybe this will clear some things up. It was a surprise to me. I called the TDC and frankly ask them why public money was being use for private gain. I was given this state statue 01250104 Tourist Development Tax. - Here's the link.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ourist+development+tax&URL=CH0125/Sec0104.HTM


BTW - I pay Waste Management 67.00 per quarter for garbage pick up.

Maybe this will clear some things up. It was a surprise to me. I called the TDC and frankly ask them why public money was being use for private gain. I was given this state statue 01250104 Tourist Development Tax. - Here's the link.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ourist+development+tax&URL=CH0125/Sec0104.HTM


BTW - I pay Waste Management 67.00 per quarter for garbage pick up.

Good link, maybe SJ will summarize it for us ;-), I run from statues.

As for the $67.00/quarter from WM, is that sowal or norwal. I am confused. I have lived here for years and never gotten a bill from them. Don't tell them though ;-)

Here, I think this is what we are looking for:

(5) AUTHORIZED USES OF REVENUE.--

(a) All tax revenues received pursuant to this section by a county imposing the tourist development tax shall be used by that county for the following purposes only:

1. To acquire, construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, maintain, operate, or promote one or more publicly owned and operated convention centers, sports stadiums, sports arenas, coliseums, or auditoriums, or museums that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public, within the boundaries of the county or subcounty special taxing district in which the tax is levied. Tax revenues received pursuant to this section may also be used for promotion of zoological parks that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public. However, these purposes may be implemented through service contracts and leases with lessees with sufficient expertise or financial capability to operate such facilities;

2. To promote and advertise tourism in the State of Florida and nationally and internationally; however, if tax revenues are expended for an activity, service, venue, or event, the activity, service, venue, or event shall have as one of its main purposes the attraction of tourists as evidenced by the promotion of the activity, service, venue, or event to tourists;

3. To fund convention bureaus, tourist bureaus, tourist information centers, and news bureaus as county agencies or by contract with the chambers of commerce or similar associations in the county, which may include any indirect administrative costs for services performed by the county on behalf of the promotion agency; or

4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access as those uses relate to the physical preservation of the beach, shoreline, or inland lake or river. However, any funds identified by a county as the local matching source for beach renourishment, restoration, or erosion control projects included in the long-range budget plan of the state's Beach Management Plan, pursuant to s. 161.091, or funds contractually obligated by a county in the financial plan for a federally authorized shore protection project may not be used or loaned for any other purpose. In counties of less than 100,000 population, no more than 10 percent of the revenues from the tourist development tax may be used for beach park facilities.

(b) Tax revenues received pursuant to this section by a county of less than 750,000 population imposing a tourist development tax may only be used by that county for the following purposes in addition to those purposes allowed pursuant to paragraph (a): to acquire, construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, maintain, operate, or promote one or more zoological parks, fishing piers or nature centers which are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public. All population figures relating to this subsection shall be based on the most recent population estimates prepared pursuant to the provisions of s. 186.901. These population estimates shall be those in effect on July 1 of each year.

(c) The revenues to be derived from the tourist development tax may be pledged to secure and liquidate revenue bonds issued by the county for the purposes set forth in subparagraphs (a)1. and 4. or for the purpose of refunding bonds previously issued for such purposes, or both; however, no more than 50 percent of the revenues from the tourist development tax may be pledged to secure and liquidate revenue bonds or revenue refunding bonds issued for the purposes set forth in subparagraph (a)4. Such revenue bonds and revenue refunding bonds may be authorized and issued in such principal amounts, with such interest rates and maturity dates, and subject to such other terms, conditions, and covenants as the governing board of the county shall provide. The Legislature intends that this paragraph shall be full and complete authority for accomplishing such purposes, but such authority shall be supplemental and additional to, and not in derogation of, any powers now existing or later conferred under law.

(d) Any use of the local option tourist development tax revenues collected pursuant to this section for a purpose not expressly authorized by paragraph (3)(l) or paragraph (3)(n) or paragraph (a), paragraph (b), or paragraph (c) of this subsection is expressly prohibited.


Well, it looks to me that there has to be public access to every place these funds go. Read #4. I am not an attorney, however.

BMBV; There is no need to beat up on Bobby over what you consider to be surfrider goals. It is simple really....

Agreed. I'm done regarding Surfrider now that Bobby J knows the difference between BMBV and BMBW.

I can hear it now from the peanut gallery..."there is none".

Let's move on past all the "garbage" .

It was Judge Green and no I don't know the case name.

http://www.firstjudicialcircuit.org/PageView.asp?PageType=JU&LType=JI&edit_id=251

I was unclear on this point. We did not receive any actual 'citation'. The officer said he was writing one but gave us nothing. I don't have a case name. I couldn't even find out if the arrest warrant had been issued until going to the Sheriffs substation. That information wasn't given over the phone. My main point was that we did not have to leave the beach at all that day. We weren't arrested and escorted away.

Here, I think this is what we are looking for:

(5) AUTHORIZED USES OF REVENUE.--

4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access as those uses relate to the physical preservation of the beach, shoreline, or inland lake or river. However, any funds identified by a county as the local matching source for beach renourishment, restoration, or erosion control projects included in the long-range budget plan of the state's Beach Management Plan, pursuant to s. 161.091, or funds contractually obligated by a county in the financial plan for a federally authorized shore protection project may not be used or loaned for any other purpose. In counties of less than 100,000 population, no more than 10 percent of the revenues from the tourist development tax may be used for beach park facilities.




Well, it looks to me that there has to be public access to every place these funds go. Read #4. I am not an attorney, however.

yippie,
It looks that way to me as well. (also no lawyer)

Wasn't it mentioned as part of the Gulf Drive hullabaloo that they "renourished" private beach so they were going to pay the government back?

BeachSiO2,
I read the link from the TDC, posted above, which describes the authority and use of the bed tax. I think the TDC just wanted to bog me down for a few minutes with all of that reading lol, because the guts were at the end, described in number 4, which is one of the uses of the tax revenue generated for bed tax:

[SIZE=-1]"4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup,..."



I'm no lawyer, either. ;-)

This statement, above, does not specify private beaches or public beaches. It simply states, "beaches." I could argue either way, because it is not defined. However, after reading the rest of the material in the link, I do see that most of the cases in which the bed taxes can be used, all go back to promoting tourism. The beaches are the largest draw for our tourists. However, if a property owner wants to claim exclusive rights to the beach, I don't see how they are helping to promote tourism, especially in a subdivision which doesn't allow rentals for less than one month period of time (ie - The Retreat). I recently heard a statistic from the attorney, Mr. Miller, representing Nature Walk (I took it with a bucket of salt), which was conducted by Resort Quest for this area, which stated that the average tourist in our area stays for a period of only seven days. Knowing that, I would say that The Retreat has nothing to do with tourism.

I wonder since the TDC is currently battling in Court to receive authority to pump sand onto and in front of the beach of privately deeded beach property, if the TDC would also have the authority to perform maintenance, such as garbage collection, on the privately deeded beach.

Personally, I think the two go hand in hand. It is "the beach," not the "privately owned beach," nor the "public beach." It is "the beach" - The same beach which draws in tourists by the SUV loads. It is the beach on which the TDC is restoring. It is the beach which the TDC maintains by collecting garbage. It is the beach which provides the money in the pockets of most everyone working in SoWal. To take that away, is essentially driving away the tourists and the livelihoods of most everyone working in SoWal, as well as many of the people in NoWal, who gain tremendously from the overall tax revenues sent back to those districts.

I say, keep the trashcans, and keep the sand, and keep the beaches. To heck with this "private beach" bologna.
[/SIZE]

BeachSiO2,
I read the link from the TDC, posted above, which describes the authority and use of the bed tax. I think the TDC just wanted to bog me down for a few minutes with all of that reading lol, because the guts were at the end, described in number 4, which is one of the uses of the tax revenue generated for bed tax:

[SIZE=-1]"4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup,..."



I'm no lawyer, either. ;-)

This statement, above, does not specify private beaches or public beaches. It simply states, "beaches." I could argue either way, because it is not defined. However, after reading the rest of the material in the link, I do see that most of the cases in which the bed taxes can be used, all go back to promoting tourism. The beaches are the largest draw for our tourists. However, if a property owner wants to claim exclusive rights to the beach, I don't see how they are helping to promote tourism, especially in a subdivision which doesn't allow rentals for less than one month period of time (ie - The Retreat). I recently heard a statistic from the attorney, Mr. Miller, representing Nature Walk (I took it with a bucket of salt), which was conducted by Resort Quest for this area, which stated that the average tourist in our area stays for a period of only seven days. Knowing that, I would say that The Retreat has nothing to do with tourism.

I wonder since the TDC is currently battling in Court to receive authority to pump sand onto and in front of the beach of privately deeded beach property, if the TDC would also have the authority to perform maintenance, such as garbage collection, on the privately deeded beach.

Personally, I think the two go hand in hand. It is "the beach," not the "privately owned beach," nor the "public beach." It is "the beach" - The same beach which draws in tourists by the SUV loads. It is the beach on which the TDC is restoring. It is the beach which the TDC maintains by collecting garbage. It is the beach which provides the money in the pockets of most everyone working in SoWal. To take that away, is essentially driving away the tourists and the livelihoods of most everyone working in SoWal, as well as many of the people in NoWal, who gain tremendously from the overall tax revenues sent back to those districts.

I say, keep the trashcans, and keep the sand, and keep the beaches. To heck with this "private beach" bologna.
[/SIZE]

Smiling Joe, I don't mean to question you, however, you left off the last part of the sentenence.

4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access

Seems pretty clear to me.

Smiling Joe, I don't mean to question you, however, you left off the last part of the sentenence.

4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access

Seems pretty clear to me.

It is late in the day.

BeachSiO2,
I read the link from the TDC, posted above, which describes the authority and use of the bed tax. I think the TDC just wanted to bog me down for a few minutes with all of that reading lol, because the guts were at the end, described in number 4, which is one of the uses of the tax revenue generated for bed tax:

[SIZE=-1]"4. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup,..."[/SIZE]



[SIZE=-1]I'm no lawyer, either. ;-) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]This statement, above, does not specify private beaches or public beaches. It simply states, "beaches." I could argue either way, because it is not defined. However, after reading the rest of the material in the link, I do see that most of the cases in which the bed taxes can be used, all go back to promoting tourism. The beaches are the largest draw for our tourists. However, if a property owner wants to claim exclusive rights to the beach, I don't see how they are helping to promote tourism, especially in a subdivision which doesn't allow rentals for less than one month period of time (ie - The Retreat). I recently heard a statistic from the attorney, Mr. Miller, representing Nature Walk (I took it with a bucket of salt), which was conducted by Resort Quest for this area, which stated that the average tourist in our area stays for a period of only seven days. Knowing that, I would say that The Retreat has nothing to do with tourism. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]I wonder since the TDC is currently battling in Court to receive authority to pump sand onto and in front of the beach of privately deeded beach property, if the TDC would also have the authority to perform maintenance, such as garbage collection, on the privately deeded beach. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Personally, I think the two go hand in hand. It is "the beach," not the "privately owned beach," nor the "public beach." It is "the beach" - The same beach which draws in tourists by the SUV loads. It is the beach on which the TDC is restoring. It is the beach which the TDC maintains by collecting garbage. It is the beach which provides the money in the pockets of most everyone working in SoWal. To take that away, is essentially driving away the tourists and the livelihoods of most everyone working in SoWal, as well as many of the people in NoWal, who gain tremendously from the overall tax revenues sent back to those districts. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]I say, keep the trashcans, and keep the sand, and keep the beaches. To heck with this "private beach" bologna.[/SIZE]

HELLO!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!! on the nose baby!!!!

we're not paying to maintain somebody's private beach. we're paying to maintain a beach that is the lifeblood of the entire county.

we need to act like we want this business and that we care about the visitors instead of just bleed em dry, kick 'em off our private beaches and just pray they come back to drop $1m on a beachouse. yikes!


<<<<<<<1. To acquire, construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, maintain, operate, or promote one or more publicly owned and operated convention centers, sports stadiums, sports arenas, coliseums, or auditoriums, or museums that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public, within the boundaries of the county or subcounty special taxing district in which the tax is levied. Tax revenues received pursuant to this section may also be used for promotion of zoological parks that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public. However, these purposes may be implemented through service contracts and leases with lessees with sufficient expertise or financial capability to operate such facilities;>>>>>

oh i BEGGED the TDC for a performing arts center/museum!!
a park would be cool too though! :roll:

Well, Sowallers, I'm no lawyer either...but, I have worked with a few and I think if one wanted to get very technical...then, all the marketing money that is being used to attract tourists to the area, should not be used to attract renters to those areas which claim private beaches.....So, if anyone is renting in an area with a so-called private beach, they should be reimbursing TDC for some of the marketing/advertising money that is paid to get their renters here!

Now, see how totally ridiculous this whole idea of private beach becomes.

I agree with SJ--let's keep the TDC money flowing and keep the beaches open for all to enjoy...especially little kids building sand castles with their parents, and solitary folks sitting on the beach!

How about this?

Gulf front properties that have their own private deeded access to a private beach should be exempt from paying the 4% bed tax in Walton County. Other than maybe garbage pick-up on the beach, TDC is not providing much of any other direct benefit to gulf front owners in general as they do not need the services of public accesses, parking, public restrooms, showers, etc. We don't even have a lifeguard in our area...and, could that work anyway on "private beaches"?

Beach renourshment would obviously be another issue. But if the Florida Supreme Court rules against the county, then gulf front property will never see that benefit along 30A (or anywhere else for that matter). I guess we just helped pay for western Walton county all this time. Oh well.

I'd give up our garbage "bag" on the beach and the tire tracks if I could save my guests 4% off or around $60 a week for a $1500 unit. That $60 could be pumped DIRECTLY into Walton County's economy such as the Red Bar or 331. I know Oli and crew need the business.

I'd venture a guess that about 2/3 of my renters are repeat or direct referrals or they found us by typing "Blue Mountain Beach" in Google and the rest from VRBO.

I've always had some questions on TDC's role but what the heck, I collect and pay the taxes anyway...which reminds me that July 20th is a few days away. The last 3 months were stellar, they'll be glad to see.


So for those of you thinking gulf front owners with a private beach are receiving some undeserved benefit from TDC, I guess a gulf front owner could say they are paying taxes for benefits not needed from the TDC to the tune of over $10,000 per quarter for a single trashbag on the beach for gulf front rental properties in our area at Blue Mountain Beach. Makes $67/quarter for Waste Management look like a flippin' bargain!

If they pay me that, I'll retire now and empty the garbage bag twice a day / 7 days a week with no tire tracks.

Just a thought.;-)

How about this?

Gulf front properties that have their own private deeded access to a private beach should be exempt from paying the 4% bed tax in Walton County. Other than maybe garbage pick-up on the beach, TDC is not providing much of any other direct benefit to gulf front owners in general as they do not need the services of public accesses, parking, public restrooms, showers, etc. We don't even have a lifeguard in our area...and, could that work anyway on "private beaches"?

Beach renourshment would obviously be another issue. But if the Florida Supreme Court rules against the county, then gulf front property will never see that benefit along 30A (or anywhere else for that matter). I guess we just helped pay for western Walton county all this time. Oh well.

I'd give up our garbage "bag" on the beach and the tire tracks if I could save my guests 4% off or around $60 a week for a $1500 unit. That $60 could be pumped DIRECTLY into Walton County's economy such as the Red Bar or 331. I know Oli and crew need the business.

I'd venture a guess that about 2/3 of my renters are repeat or direct referrals or they found us by typing "Blue Mountain Beach" in Google and the rest from VRBO.

I've always had some questions on TDC's role but what the heck, I collect and pay the taxes anyway...which reminds me that July 20th is a few days away. The last 3 months were stellar, they'll be glad to see.


So for those of you thinking gulf front owners with a private beach are receiving some undeserved benefit from TDC, I guess a gulf front owner could say they are paying taxes for benefits not needed from the TDC to the tune of over $10,000 per quarter for a single trashbag on the beach for gulf front rental properties in our area at Blue Mountain Beach. Makes $67/quarter for Waste Management look like a flippin' bargain!

If they pay me that, I'll retire now and empty the garbage bag twice a day / 7 days a week with no tire tracks.

Just a thought.;-)

Make that $1,000.00 per month. I believe there is some language in there about communities with under 100,000 people, only 10% can be used for the beach maintenance.

Do you really want to give up all that "free" advertising promoting that very beach your units are on?

I think it says something about 90% of the money goes for other things, like promoting tourism in the area. Something we all benefit from.

You know, BMBV, sometimes you sound as though you'd be happier living somewhere else

Make that $1,000.00 per month. I believe there is some language in there about communities with under 100,000 people, only 10% can be used for the beach maintenance.

Do you really want to give up all that "free" advertising promoting that very beach your units are on?

I think it says something about 90% of the money goes for other things, like promoting tourism in the area. Something we all benefit from.

? of the revenue is used for marketing and promotion, ? for beach maintenance and beach access development, ? Autumn Tides Fall promotion and New Product Development and ? for beach nourishment and restoration. (taken from Clerk of Courts web site)

I also read on the Clerks' web site that through the beach restoration program gulf front owners property increased by 30%.

How about this?

Gulf front properties that have their own private deeded access to a private beach should be exempt from paying the 4% bed tax in Walton County. Other than maybe garbage pick-up on the beach, TDC is not providing much of any other direct benefit to gulf front owners in general as they do not need the services of public accesses, parking, public restrooms, showers, etc. We don't even have a lifeguard in our area...and, could that work anyway on "private beaches"?

Judging by the lack of parking, restrooms, showers, etc, at the public accesses, I disagree with your statement. Also, I would point out that beach front units with deeded beach, also need the marketing and advertising of the TDC. They don't directly market individual homes, but the entire area of SoWal. They spend much money on general advertising for our area, and some of those visitors even stay in Gulf front housing with deeded beach access.

Judging by the lack of parking, restrooms, showers, etc, at the public accesses, I disagree with your statement. Also, I would point out that beach front units with deeded beach, also need the marketing and advertising of the TDC. They don't directly market individual homes, but the entire area of SoWal. They spend much money on general advertising for our area, and some of those visitors even stay in Gulf front housing with deeded beach access.

So are you saying TDC doesn't really spend that much on public facilities? If not, then where does the money go?

You know, BMBV, sometimes you sound as though you'd be happier living somewhere else

I do live somewhere else. If I lived in our unit down there, I wouldn't have to charge my guests all that TDC tax to renourish beaches that aren't even in our area anywhere on 30A. So maybe it's just the other way around. Was something said to offend you?

So are you saying TDC doesn't really spend that much on public facilities? If not, then where does the money go?

advertising and marketing eats a big chunk.

Yes, I am saying that the TDC doesn't appear to spend much money on public restrooms and showers at the accesses. Count the number of accesses, the number of restrooms, and the number of parking spaces, and see what number you come up with. I'm not sure where they expect everyone to poop. I think it is obvious by the lack of restrooms available that they expect people to pee in the Gulf. Of course, I know some of you don't like your Gulf front homes to "look down on" restrooms, neither public nor private. ;-)