Lowering the speed limit on 30A?

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by SGB, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    I appreciate your viewpoint and you posting your opinions, even if a tad aggressive. A lone voice need not be any louder to be heard on this forum.

    I admit to never having thought about LSVs before this thread, or have any knowledge of the statute or what is going on in the rest of Florida.

    LSVs seem to make sense in the homogenous environment of a planned community. They don't make nearly as much sense on a 17-mile long county highway connecting diverse communities, many of which aren't LSV friendly.

    The green argument holds little water because SoWal is a destination for families in SUVs. Adding LSVs for them after they get here just adds to the drain of raw materials for LSV production, the energy costs of LSV manufacture and operation, and the pollution and land filling disposal of the vehicle at some point in the future.

    When SoWal starts getting planned communities for permanent residents, then maybe the green argument will make sense.
     
  2. NOLA TRANSPLANT

    NOLA TRANSPLANT Beach Lover

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    Exactly, Sunspotbaby.
     
  3. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    I love that just because I think LSV's are a bad idea I am anti-green or anti-environment. :roll:

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I am off to walk to the farmer's market. :moon:
     
  4. SurfKitten

    SurfKitten Beach Comber

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    All I know is that when I pull out to scenic 98 in destin, at 7:30 am, i shouldnt have to worry about ma and pa kettle checking out the scenery at 15 mph. all I ask is that you GO THE FREAKING SPEED LIMIT AT 35. i had a man point at the MPH sign as he was driving (he was probably 95) and it said 35. he was going 20. like I was doing something wrong by tailgating him. JUST GOOOOO.... we have JOBSS!!!!!
     
  5. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    Kurt's advice was good but I do admire and respect your passion and your willingness to fight to have your viewpoint heard.:boxing:
     
  6. robertsondavies

    robertsondavies Beach Fanatic

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    Thanks Kurt. You and others make numerous valid points, I don't yet agree with you though overall - If you guys organize and roll back LSV for 30A, so be it.. I'm interested in the dialogue. I was aggressive above admitedly, but make no apology, I felt quite provoked - frankly was caught offguard by an out of character (IMO) comment by SWGB, who usually posts the coolest things, and obviously hence is so well liked by the online community. It caused me to argue way more forcefully 'for" LSVS than I actually otherwise would have, but I still on balance agree with the proposal being forwarded by The Friends of 30A (apparently not your friends lol) I still say, I've been slowed by obnoxious (won't pull over under any circumstance) cyclists on 30A than golf carts (licensed by LSV or not) but I can't speak for your experiences.
    As far as the 'green' stuff goes, I have conceded earlier it is no panacea, it is a tough call as to the environment, and your best point is that this causes us to produce more crap (i.e. golf carts) that eventually go to the junk heap, and that's a damn good point, even if more than offset by the carbon benefit, of riding 1000 pound vehicles on electricity while on vacation, vs. 6000 pound vehicles on unleaded gasoline.
    Vacation homes and resorts are also superfuous unecessary output waste, by some extension of that logic however. And so therefore, as a user of resorts in general and vacation homes etc. I am not GREEN, and am the opposite of green. If I were truly out to save the planet, I'd sleep in a tent when in SoWal, instead of a house that's occupied 50 days a year. So I'll have to allow you (all) that I'm not truly green in the least, and if any of you are truly living green lives, congrats. All I do is make gestures, like put a solar panel up on a 2nd home, or look into putting up a mini windmill generator on same etc. But those aren't 'green'... b/c the 2nd home itself hurts the planet, just like manufacture and eventual disposal of an LSV.

    I'm tired of this topic now... I think I'll change gears so to speak, and just shut up until I trade in my Tahoe for something more planet friendly. All I really want is a convertible, screw golf carts.
     
  7. seagrover

    seagrover Beach Fanatic

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    I have to agree. It does get quite irritating to be behind someone sight seeing and pointing and looking and going sooooo slow. Some of us actually do have places to go.

    I hate to see what it will do to the businesses on 30A if they pass this because I will head for 98 as soon as possible.
     
  8. Street Legal Carts

    Street Legal Carts Beach Crab

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    Good question

    30-Ashopper,

    No, mopeds are not included in the LSV classification. Under federal laws an LSV is a four wheeled vehicle that must do a min. speed of 20MPH and not exceed 25MPH. Florida statutes have narrowed that definition to "electric four wheeled vehicles" thus not allowing any gas powered carts to become street legal. Florida narrowed its definition due to the fact that the state is viewing the LSV as another tool to help improve the environment and our (humans) impact on it. The fact that FL has not allowed gas LSV's should at least help w/ you concerns about noise polution.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  9. Street Legal Carts

    Street Legal Carts Beach Crab

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    Sorry Kurt, but the green argument is valid! Yes the family may come down in a SUV but if we can reduce the emissions in the air produced by that SUV by having it parked for a week we have done good. Some people seem to be forgetting the fragile eco-systems that surround us in Walton County and how detrimental air pollution is to the plant and animal life in the area. Take into consideration that Southern Co. (Gulf Power) is in the beginning processes of converting several of their local power plants to burn bio-mass as opposed to fossil fuels. Combine a "clean power plant" w/ a no emissions vehicle and we have a start to some of our environmental issues.


    Robert Davies I have your back! Even though I will catch flack because I have a vested interest in all of this.
     
  10. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    This entire debate is summed up in one very simple, common sense idea. And that is: Hwy 30A is a highway with cars, trucks, SUVs, and many out of town drivers, and sometimes it is absolutely congested with motor traffic, bikes and pedestrians on walking path... For the safety of everyone - residents and tourists - keep golf carts, mopeds and anything NOT a real car - off the road.

    SAFETY. that is the one and only factor that really needs consideration. I could care less if the speed limit is lowered - maybe it should be in places - for safety reasons. but not to allow carts on the highway - which would only serve to increase danger for everyone.

    green is always good. but not at the expense of lives - a big indication that the issue of carts on a highway was never green to start with.
    thank you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  11. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    It would be cool if people could come down and have Smart Cars, Tatas, etc. available to use.

    That would help with parking & traffic issues, help the environment, and the vehicles would be SAFE - with seatbelts, doors, etc.
     
  12. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    So, no addressing this issue?

    With India and China poised to add a billion cars I think it is problematic, bu anyone who buys a cart from you and needs to justify their purchase on environmental grounds is OK with me.
     
  13. katie blue

    katie blue kt loo

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    To me, this is the best thing I took from that original post. Imagine if we had electric or clean CNG-bus shuttles running back and forth on 30A. Most resort areas have something like this. The one I just saw in W. Maui was being used by locals and tourists alike-- $1 a ride. I think it would definitely reduce traffic, pollution, allow teenagers some mobility, and provide a great option for the tourists who fly in to the new airport who don't want to rent a car. Might even cut down on LSV usage. I know I'd use a SoWal shuttle if we had one...
     
  14. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    There's KB! :wave:

    I agree - it is going to take a commitment from the community and government to subsidize it. We are still working on paving roads but it will happen someday. Hopefully they will be alternatively fueled when it does.
     
  15. robertsondavies

    robertsondavies Beach Fanatic

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    Tootsie, if it were ALL ABOUT SAFETY as you say,then logically not only must Bikes not ever use 30A, but 30A should be made a LIMITED ACCESS FREEWAY, in order to Save Lives. This will confine dangerous pedestrian and bike crossings to only two or three spots on 30A, with on ramps and off ramps etc to allow flow, and also this Freeway should have a few elevated sections (i.e. thru seaside and rosemary). This will be SAFER, but is it what we want? Not me, but I think of 30A as a resort area, perhaps because I don't live there. Now you may live there, but if there weren't a lot of folks using 30A as a resort, I'm not sure if 98% of the locals wouldn't live there either. Seems to me the entire economy of South Walton is linked to tourism - but producing memories, not widgets, but I could be wrong, I know there used to be a turpentine industry there.
     
  16. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    30A is not a resort. there are resort towns located here and there along the highway but that doesn't mean golf carts need to travel on the highway. there are really long stretches between developments and beach communities. it is a HIGHWAY for goodness sake. Bikes and pedestrians have their own pathway - separate and apart from the highway.

    I should have said that for ME - the primary concern is safety. Good grief - Hwy 30A is not one little resort town. It is several communities along a long stretch of highway. Many full time residents live and work and travel that highway. The many visitors and their children should find safety on that highway as well. we've made good progress in providing a wonderful path for pedestrians and bikers.

    If I wanted to use a golf cart in a resort town, I would find an actual resort town that allows them on safe small roads with very low limits. I guess you could ride around in one in Rosemary Beach or Seaside - if those communities allow them and provide places for them to be parked near a beach access - what other reason would there be to ride in a golf cart or lsv? when you get to the beach with your family, you either have your own car or you have rented one. now you want to have two modes of transporation? and you call that green? I don't get it.

    I can't imagine a family in town loading up on a golf cart in order to go from Seaside to Grayton Beach for lunch and shopping. not only unsafe as all hell on a highway with cars, construction vehicles and really big delivery and other trucks, but really inefficient way to travel distances over about half a mile or so - with children. I have seen the way some visitors drive around here during peak season - they are in a hurry, don't know where they are going, probably have had a few drinks... I stay away from 30A as much as I can during peak season. I can't imagine putting my children in a golf cart to travel any distance down a highway during peak season in a huge vacation area. totally insane imo.
     
  17. robertsondavies

    robertsondavies Beach Fanatic

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    For safetys' sake it should be made a FREEWAY, with ZERO cars and ZERo LSV's allowed then. I disagree respectfully with your point, that 30A is not a resort area. Yes it is not a legally defined Planned Unit Develoment per se.. sure.. but it is one cohesive resort area, bound by many things, like this website for one. Watercolor, just aint Watercolor without Seaside, and without the run of 30A to Grayton's offerings, and Deer Lake's beauty. When people stay in Seagrove Beach they lunch at Bud & Alley's Taco Bar for instance, ditto the folks in Watercolor who frequent Sundog Books, or Cafe Onano. Cohesively bound by a unique geography, a wonderful mutli-use path, a world renowned architectural and urban planning style called new urbanism, a sense of community, a place of being, a state of mind (SoWal), etc. 30A is a wonderfully elegant resort area, with distinctive, interactive neighborhoods. That it is technically not one PUD resort is missing the point about people actually USE the area, and THINK about the area. It is a good point of debate however. I hate to see 30A as a FREEWAY or Highway running efficiently, through a series of numerous and different (perhaps controlled access even in future) resort 'hoods. If what you say are true, and shared view of enough people, you can just raise the speed limit on 30A to 50MPH, and then make it "safe" because no LSV's will then be allowed on it at all. The new I- 30 Interstate will also help make your point

    Sorry, I'm still siding with the Friends of 30A on this one...

    No INTERSTATING of 30A !
     
  18. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    that is exactly what 30A is. it is a highway connecting many neighborhoods and communities of local residents and vacation properties. now you are starting to get the picture it seems.

    we already have 45 mph in some places in long stretches with little development. raising from 35 to 50 wouldn't really make sense because of safety reasons in the heart of small communities. sure - ride your little cart in the safety of small roads within a resort community. just use your good common sense and stay off a major road. I would rather see mopeds speeding up and down 30a, like you see in some Italian sea villages on the major roads.. yes, they sound like hell, but at least they can keep up the speed and they aren't hauling children.

    walking between rosemary beach and alys, or between watercolor and seaside, or all around grayton - this is the way to actually see and feel all the beauty our area has to offer. stroll along and stop at a local wine bar or coffee shop along the way. check out a beach walkover, or local store. ride your bike and feel the wind. yes, we already have all we need in this paradise.

    this place is not Disney. we do not need to add to the whims, toys and obesity problems of america by offering a golf cart to go across the street to perspicacity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  19. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    Your arguments are so ludicrous that you are alienating even the people who support LSVs and other green technologies.
     
  20. John R

    John R needs to get out more

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    the ranting is getting hard to read. And yes, the message is becoming so repetitive that any sympathizers are probably edging away.

    Katie Blue, where have you been? What's up with you guys?
     

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