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SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
twt512 said:
I'd like to see this thread provide some real assistance to either an employer or employee when determining a reasonable wage for this area.

Does anyone want to research a range of rates, based on type of employment and other factors, that can backed up by figures (cost of living index etc.)

We could provide someone with a valuable argument for asking $___/hour.


TWT,

I appreciate your concern...I sense you really want to find solutions to this problem--and it is a BIG problem. Believe me, I wish I could offer up a quick and easy solution, but I've looked at this problem from a number of different angles and it isn't an easy fix.

As long as people continue to throw money at developers for building more and more retail & condos which gobble up lower cost-of-living areas and require low-cost staff to run them, there are going to be problems.

The easiest solution (and the one I find most distasteful) is to build barracks in far-flung areas and ship in thousands of migrant workers from third world countries. I have nothing against migrant workers, but I fear the profits that can be generated from such a system could lead to the abuse of the poor folks shipped in to work. In that sense, the panhandle would operate more like a cruise ship.

On the other hand, the best solution, I feel, would be for the county to DEMAND developers build rental apartments as part of the deal to allow them to develop their upscale communities. And yes, the employers in the area will have to fork out "living wages" and the tourists and locals living in the local areas will have to pay. There's a price to pay for living in paradise.

What's really going to happen in the short-term is that the businesses are going to have to increase wages and treat their good employees well OR they are going to have to constantly hire and train new employees (which is more expensive than raising wages a couple bucks an hour) OR they are going to end up with sub-par employees, in which case it doesn't matter if Wolfgang Puck is in the kitchen--if the customers get cold food and attitude...the business will fold before long.

If you REALLY want to find answers, TWT, ask your question of the guy who's bussing your dishes or serving your drink across the bar next time you are out for the evening.
 

Paula

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
3,747
442
Michigan but someday in SoWal as well
"BUT what about this upcoming summer season? On another thread there is a comment about the poor service and cold food at Shades; and the bad attitude of (drug addicted?) staff. If this is a problem in the dead of winter, my guess is that this problem is going to grow 1,000-fold when the tourist season hits."

I saw the comment and I can't say I had any indication that any of the staff at Shades was drug addicted (as you know, I really worry about stereotypes because they harm people and businesses and usually aren't true), nor did I experience generally poor service -- I'd call it average to good service. Our food was always great -- hot, sometimes innovative, tasty, and well-priced (and I have no invested interested in Shades by the Loop other than I like that it's close to us because we like to go there to eat -- it has become one of our favorite places to eat when we're in SoWal).

I definitely agree that staffing and housing is a problem. Given these problems, places that take good care of their staff and pay them well are the ones who will find the creative people who are able to figure out how to make a job in SoWal work for them -- and those people will tell their friends about the good places to work in SoWal so those places will get staff year after year.
 

WaltonUndercurrent

Beach Lover
Mar 3, 2005
132
0
I agree with Shelly on this one. Most of the larger business owners in the resort related service industry will tell you that employment is the absolute number one problem they're concerned with down the road. Not real estate prices or tourism, but finding the employees to clean, landscape, patrol, serve food, cook, answer phones, do laundry, etc. I'm not sure that there are enough young people whose families have homes in the area that are willing to work for going wages to keep it all going. Even if there were, they would only help during the summer months when the area is trying to become a year 'round destination.

Having homeowners start sending their kids down to live in their homes and work on their breaks and vacations isn't a sensible solution. I don't think we can breed the problem away. It's also idealistic to think that the problem is going to be solved because a lot of people think it's great here - most of those people have homes, money to spend on food, and aren't serving burgers and living with three or more other people in a small room five days a week. There's more to being a great place to work than just how pretty the scenery is. "I know most of what you're making is going to pay your part of the rent, but just look out the window at how pretty it is."

For seasonal work, eating mac & cheese and hotdogs from the corner mart may be worth spending a summer at the beach and enjoying a day off or two a week in the sun for a lot of young people, but not nearly enough. And while starving artists are cliche, I'm not sure they'll be happy with a life of mac & cheese either.

As an example, the Seaside rep theatre has an increasing problem with housing actors during the season - even cultural venues are starting to panic.

The trickle down effect of all this is that the cost of doing business here is going to continue to rise, cutting into profit margins and increasing prices even higher - which then prevents service wages from supporting employees and the circle starts again.

I'm afraid it's too late. Current real estate prices, even in this current market, won't encourage low income development. And low income development wouldn't stay "low income" for long in the market. Rent control won't work - this isn't New York City.

I think that the Chamber should have begun looking for ways to address this issue some time ago. It's membership is the one with the greatest potential to be affected. Its membership should have demanded it.

I predict fewer new businesses, restaurants, shops, etc and the attrition of some of the existing ones. Add real estate costs and insurance costs and there's justifiable cause for concern.
 

Paula

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
3,747
442
Michigan but someday in SoWal as well
Definitely cause for concern, no doubt about it. And I think we approach it in many different ways, including pushing hard for affordable housing, paying people well, encouraging the people who do manage to work here by treating them well (e.g., encouraging generous tipping of waiters, waitresses, cleaning people), figuring out how to get people to vacation here during the slow months so business have income during those periods. Big changes are made not only by changing policies in a big way, but through many "small wins" -- small activities/changes that add up to make big differences. Sometimes we focus so much on one thing, that we miss (and dismiss) the other opportunities.

I think it's very important to be having this staffing discussion now because it helps us come up with many different ideas -- big and small -- to try to shape the future of the area for everyone involved -- from workers, to businesses, to property owners, to environmentalists, etc.
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Paula said:
I think it's very important to be having this staffing discussion now because it helps us come up with many different ideas -- big and small -- to try to shape the future of the area for everyone involved -- from workers, to businesses, to property owners, to environmentalists, etc.

IMO the real estate money grab and greed experienced over the last couple of years is coming home to roost. The area is quickly heading for an economic trainwreck that is unavoidable at this point. If one thinks it's bad now, when they can't find a decent house painter or get a hot meal with a smile, just wait 2 years down the road when the dust settles on all the new construction going on around the area... :dunno:
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
WaltonUndercurrent said:
I predict few knew business, restaurants, shops, etc and the attrition of some of the existing ones. Add real estate costs and insurance costs and there's justifiable cause for concern.

SOWAL 2010: A restricted-access beach lined with upscale houses and condos, a condo-tel with spa, a 5-star restuarant and a Prada store....that's about it.
 

Uncle Timmy

Beach Fanatic
Nov 15, 2004
1,013
31
Blue Mountain Beach
SHELLY said:
TWT,

I appreciate your concern...I sense you really want to find solutions to this problem--and it is a BIG problem. Believe me, I wish I could offer up a quick and easy solution, but I've looked at this problem from a number of different angles and it isn't an easy fix.

As long as people continue to throw money at developers for building more and more retail & condos which gobble up lower cost-of-living areas and require low-cost staff to run them, there are going to be problems.

The easiest solution (and the one I find most distasteful) is to build barracks in far-flung areas and ship in thousands of migrant workers from third world countries. I have nothing against migrant workers, but I fear the profits that can be generated from such a system could lead to the abuse of the poor folks shipped in to work. In that sense, the panhandle would operate more like a cruise ship.

On the other hand, the best solution, I feel, would be for the county to DEMAND developers build rental apartments as part of the deal to allow them to develop their upscale communities. And yes, the employers in the area will have to fork out "living wages" and the tourists and locals living in the local areas will have to pay. There's a price to pay for living in paradise.

What's really going to happen in the short-term is that the businesses are going to have to increase wages and treat their good employees well OR they are going to have to constantly hire and train new employees (which is more expensive than raising wages a couple bucks an hour) OR they are going to end up with sub-par employees, in which case it doesn't matter if Wolfgang Puck is in the kitchen--if the customers get cold food and attitude...the business will fold before long.

If you REALLY want to find answers, TWT, ask your question of the guy who's bussing your dishes or serving your drink across the bar next time you are out for the evening.

A simple challenge submitted and.......'ka-thud' the sound of it falling on the floor.

Ok Shelly, let's get away from the "We must solve all the problems facing sowal or nothing" mentality and takle this issue specifically.

It may shock you to know that I do indeed know many of the folks who are bussing the tables and serving the drinks. Just as I am also friends with several small business owners in the area who employ them.

I feel it would be insightful to both if someone would look seriously into a regional wage analysis and determine an acceptable hourly rate that can be justified with facts.

FOCUS!
 

beachmouse

Beach Fanatic
Dec 5, 2004
3,499
741
Bluewater Bay, FL
Paula said:
So, in addition to worrying about minimum wage, we can actually take actions such as giving money to organizations that support education (e.g., college) for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to attend college. We can support community colleges in the area that open doors for many people who would otherwise continue to have minimum wage jobs.

The community colleges down here are cheap enough to be affordable to almost everyone. If you want to go to school, you can make it happen.

The problem is when someone finishes their degree, they either end up leaving the area or going back to their old job because of the lack of middle income white collar jobs in the area. There is a huge underemployment problem in the area, which means that the white collar jobs in a pleasant environment in many cases pay utter shyte, even by Southern standards.

We're talking people with four year degrees who are sitll waiting tables because they can make more doing dinner shifts at McGuire's than they could as schoolteachers. Or the person who used to teach community college math who is now running a t-shirt shop.

It's a classic hourglass economy down here- there are some amazingly good job opportunities if you're a rocket scientist, and a lot of service sector jobs, but there's close to nothing in the middle unless you're good at sales, or end up managing a retail store.
 

Kurt

Admin
Oct 15, 2004
2,318
5,018
SoWal
mooncreek.com
I posted this a year ago from an article I saw. Has anyone heard any more about it?

Affordable housing coming to Walton County
Regional utilities has 2100 acres on JW Hollington Road, about 6 miles East of Freeport, North of Hwy 20. In the first phase, 300 acres will be divided into lots selling for around $35,000, including water and sewer.

Lots will not be available to buy and flip, and will be offered to first -time homeowners. 400-1200 lots will be sold in the first phase. The plans will be proposed to the County in 3-6 months.
 
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