More Illegal Activity -- Filling in Wetlands

So you like it natural?


A phone conversation between Skeet (Mosquito) and Stag (Stagnant Water) was over heard the other day, and it went something like this.

Skeet: Hey, Stag, this is Skeet. Guess what? We?ve got some more party spots!
Stag: Relax, DEP?s done it. That means it?s a done deal! Cool dude! We can party to our heart?s content. TDC keeps bringing folks in, you know, along with all those folks who think wetlands are so great.
Skeet: Security? Hey, those folks keep coming in who think it?s terrible to mess up our home. If they only knew. Ha, ha! I?ve got more blood than I can drink myself, plenty for all my kids. We?re having a very good season!
Stag: For me? Don?t worry. Plenty of still water. They don?t want to touch it. They think they are saving the land for their children. If they only knew my water will kill their children! Just wait for another hurricane or big storm. I?ll get spilled out!
Skeet: Oh, what a time we?re having. Looking for something big out of this, maybe another plague or something. Remember the one we had with malaria some years back? Yeah, we hit a lot with that one, most folks now don?t even know about it! We?ve had several rounds with spinal meningitis, aids, and what about West Nile Virus? But folks today just think that medicine can cure everything. They don?t think they need to do anything to clean up their land. Yea, the days when the Mosquito Control was a real threat, sure glad people don?t realize minnows eat us! Let them keep the puddles wet and stagnant!
Stag: Crazy? Yeah, so let?s party!

So you like it natural?.....................

Re: The Skeet/Stag Joke.
:roll: This Skeet/Stag Joke seems rather silly and I would hope readers would read it with a huge grain of salt.

Or am I missing something here?
Aren?t wetlands actually a natural way to store water and act sorta like a natural detention pond. If the uplands surrounding the wetland areas are not messed up by development, then the wetland they drain into should act as a filter for runoff materials before they have a chance to enter bodies of water. A functioning wetland should actually enhance water quality before it enters whatever water body it enters.

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Re: The Skeet/Stag Joke.
:roll: This Skeet/Stag Joke seems rather silly and I would hope readers would read it with a huge grain of salt.

Or am I missing something here?
Aren?t wetlands actually a natural way to store water and act sorta like a natural detention pond. If the uplands surrounding the wetland areas are not messed up by development, then the wetland they drain into should act as a filter for runoff materials before they have a chance to enter bodies of water. A functioning wetland should actually enhance water quality before it enters whatever water body it enters.

.

Perhaps you're missing something.

Wetlands act as a natural filter to remove nutrients from the runoff so that do not enter such bodies of water as the bay or the gulf. Why does that matter you may ask. When nutrient loads get into bays other water bodies, they cause in high levels of algae bloom. This fouls the water, depletes the O2 in the water, which in turn kills the fish and other fauna in the water body. On the other hand, wetlands make great use of these nutrients, turning them into trees and wildflowers and such.

BTW, mosquitoes, while natural to a wetland, are keep in check by the fauna of the undisturbed wetland, however excess mosquitoes are a good sign of a disturbed wetland.

BTW, mosquitoes, while natural to a wetland, are keep in check by the fauna of the undisturbed wetland, however excess mosquitoes are a good sign of a disturbed wetland.

You've got to be kidding! Where did you learn that from? Excess mosquitoes are a sign of poor land management!

You've got to be kidding! Where did you learn that from? Excess mosquitoes are a sign of poor land management!

Some research.

Keep your wetlands healthy
​

On the landscape scale, a healthy ecosystem is the best defense against mosquito outbreak. Mosquitoes are a natural part of a healthy wetland ecosystem. They have an important role to play where they serve as food for a number of species. Fish, birds, bats, amphibians, and other insects all eat mosquito larva and/or adults. This generally keeps the
mosquito population under control.

However, when wetlands are manipulated and disturbed the predators are often impacted first. While mosquitoes do well in disturbed environments, the species that eat them do not. Loss of the predators that keep the mosquito population in check can result in outbreaks. This is a good time to check the state of any wetlands on your property and come up with a management plan for those habitats. You can use best management practices to keep the habitat healthy. A healthy wetland will have a diverse fauna of the natural enemies of mosquitoes including dragonflies, damselflies, water striders, predacious diving beetles, and other insects, fish, birds, and amphibians.​

You've got to be kidding! Where did you learn that from? Excess mosquitoes are a sign of poor land management!

Graduate School in Civil and Environmental Engineering and then confirmed through years of professional practice.;-)

Graduate School in Civil and Environmental Engineering and then confirmed through years of professional practice.;-)

I was waiting for you to share your credentials. ;-)

For those of you who don't remember, Floridagirl's dad was the pioneer of the mosquito control around here, digging drainage ditches and filling them with Poison. Without the Mosquito Control, we would have more mosquitos, but we wouldn't be blasted with poisons sprayed from airplanes during the summer and we wouldn't be breathing in the poisons which they spray into the air from a truck, as they drive around our streets. Some people say that I have organic produce in my yard, but I have to always mention that the produce is sprayed from the road by the poison truck (mosquito control).

Screen and my homemade non-poisonous solutions work pretty well for me, and there is always the A/C inside, from which to escape. ;-)

..........................
BTW, mosquitoes, while natural to a wetland, are keep in check by the fauna of the undisturbed wetland, however excess mosquitoes are a good sign of a disturbed wetland.

Floridagirl - Here is a link to a NRCS/USDA website that goes into mosquitoes in natural and constructed wetlands. It has useful information you might want to read. Wetlands are complicated and each is different but their value is understood in the scientific field.
Check out this link: http://www.water.ncsu.edu/watershedss/info/wetlands/manage.html

I have learned a little from university ecology classes and from my husbands work as a regional agronomist with the Natural Resources Conservation Service (at one time working as a state agronomist in Florida), but the subject of wetlands and their problems is more than I understand completely. Maybe I can coax my husband to post. But I rather think Bdarg and maybe others can add more than enough understanding that we don't continue to look at wetlands as something needing "filled in".

As for mosquitoes, here is an excerpt from the link on Wetland Management:
Mosquito control is one reason that wetlands have historically been drained and it remains a cause of wetlands loss today. Natural wetlands, as well as restored and created wetlands, are habitat for mosquitoes. Constructed wetlands in particular may stagnate and increase breeding of mosquitoes because they lack a hydroperiod or do not contain predatory fish species.

Mosquito control does not have to cause wetland impacts or loss. However, pesticides such as organophosphates (e.g., malathion) that are used to control mosquitoes may be toxic to wetlands fish and aquatic invertebrates. Other more natural pesticides or bacteria can provide a more directed approach to mosquito control (Buchsbaum, 1994). Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis (Bti) is one bacterium that is more specific and less toxic than malathion. Careful application can avoid impacting other chironomid larvae that form the base of the food web in wetlands (Buchsbaum, 1994). An Integrated Pest Management approach to mosquito control should be used rather than drainage or non IPM-application of pesticides. Allowing predators of mosquitoes such as mosquito fish ( Gambusia affinis ), and killifishes ( Fundulus spp .) access to breeding areas or introducing these fish should be part of an IPM mosquito control program.

Another method of mosquito control is to ensure that created and restored wet meadows and marshes have a hydroperiod which includes dry conditions during the mosquito egg- laying or hatching season (Zentner, 1994). The dry conditions will prevent egg-laying and hatching.

IPM = integrated pest management
You may be familiar with Bt if you've ever use the "donuts" you throw in your backyard pond for mosquito control - it's a Bacillus bacteria.

We're all hopefully here to learn from each other ..... ;-)

Don't have to accept everything but can take it into consideration.

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For those of you who don't remember, Floridagirl's dad was the pioneer of the mosquito control around here, digging drainage ditches and filling them with Poison. Without the Mosquito Control, we would have more mosquitos, but we wouldn't be blasted with poisons sprayed from airplanes during the summer and we wouldn't be breathing in the poisons which they spray into the air from a truck, as they drive around our streets. Some people say that I have organic produce in my yard, but I have to always mention that the produce is sprayed from the road by the poison truck (mosquito control).

Screen and my homemade non-poisonous solutions work pretty well for me, and there is always the A/C inside, from which to escape. ;-)

Look at a natural wetland as mother nature?s original organic mosquito control.

For those of you who don't remember, Floridagirl's dad was the pioneer of the mosquito control around here, digging drainage ditches and filling them with Poison. Without the Mosquito Control, we would have more mosquitos, but we wouldn't be blasted with poisons sprayed from airplanes during the summer and we wouldn't be breathing in the poisons which they spray into the air from a truck, as they drive around our streets. Some people say that I have organic produce in my yard, but I have to always mention that the produce is sprayed from the road by the poison truck (mosquito control).

Screen and my homemade non-poisonous solutions work pretty well for me, and there is always the A/C inside, from which to escape. ;-)

You are way off, he filled them with minnows. But then you didn't live here at that time, nor apparently do you go into the "wetlands" unarmed.

Not only was extensive research done, but there were many years of practical experience also. I doubt seriously you lived here before the days of the mosquito control to experience nature at it's best! Some of those who did experience it, didn't survive do to Malaria, in fact, the cattle they tried to raise couldn't survive it either. I suggest you do more investigation before making judgements. Not everything you learn in college is accurate you know, their statement is that they want to stetch your creative thinking! However, I don't see it stretched a whole lot.

By the way, I don't know anyone who actually stood outside while the truck was going by. Did you know that the previous generations had the same brain functions as we have? Their grey matter was all there, in fact, many didn't have so many drugs filling their systems, nor propaganda filling their brains, that they could actually think clear enough to want a better life for their children, to send them to college. Not realizing what their kids would receive there. I choose not to think of them as stupid, but to try to learn from their wisdom.

By the way, I don't know anyone who actually stood outside while the truck was going by. Did you know that the previous generations had the same brain functions as we have? Their grey matter was all there, in fact, many didn't have so many drugs filling their systems, nor propaganda filling their brains, that they could actually think clear enough to want a better life for their children, to send them to college. Not realizing what their kids would receive there. I choose not to think of them as stupid, but to try to learn from their wisdom.

You're making me long for the days of DDT and Chlordane. Who sez its bad fer you? I think pesticides is great!

You've got to be kidding! Where did you learn that from? Excess mosquitoes are a sign of poor land management!

well, quit "managing" the land and we won't have to worry about it, wetlands can manage themselves as long as we leave them alone...
And that means not spraying chemicals.

By the way, I don't know anyone who actually stood outside while the truck was going by. Did you know that the previous generations had the same brain functions as we have? Their grey matter was all there, in fact, many didn't have so many drugs filling their systems, nor propaganda filling their brains, that they could actually think clear enough to want a better life for their children, to send them to college. Not realizing what their kids would receive there. I choose not to think of them as stupid, but to try to learn from their wisdom.

Florida Girl -- it's clear you've been here longer than most of the people who post here, and clearly you love this place. I'd encourage you to drive by this lot on Silverleaf (from 98 go north on Bay Dr., right on E. Point Washington, then take the third left [at the Grayton Bayou sign], right on Greenbriar, then turn left toward the bay and turn right on Silverleaf) and see what was done for yourself, and then see if you still think I'm being a tree hugging liberal who doesn't understand the ecosystem because I was appalled by what I saw.

I lived in New Orleans for a while, and New Orleans is a textbook study in what happens when you drain wetlands and add a little dirt and build a neighborhood -- see Lakeview, Hollygrove, Holy Cross, Lower 9th Ward, etc. I hope you will understand why I consider it immoral to illegally fill a wetland to build a house to then turn around and sell to someone who doesn't know the swampy history of the lot.

Also, I think if you see Silverleaf, you will see that the person who wreaked all this havoc was not getting rid of a wetland to make the neighborhood safer and more enjoyable for everyone. He/she just bulldozed and piled a bunch of dirt on the piece he/she owned, pushing the water onto other lots and creating standing pools of stagnant water all around the perimeter of the dirt mound.

I am no great lover of swamps and wetlands, I don't find them beautiful and I certainly am not a fan of mosquitoes. I do, however, think God created a delicate balance with the land on the coast and the wetlands serve a purpose. I think when men act to disturb that balance, they can never really predict the consequences of their actions. I think that even if we surrounded the land south of the bay to the beach with seawalls and filled in all the wetlands we'd still have mosquitoes (just as they did in New Orleans). If we really want to do that, though, we should at least expect that people will follow the legal process to do so, so that they don't steal property value from their neighbors by simply diverting the water onto formerly dry land.

Finally, with your connections, do you think you can get the mosquito truck to drive extra slow by my house?

So you like it natural?


A phone conversation between Skeet (Mosquito) and Stag (Stagnant Water) was over heard the other day, and it went something like this.

Skeet: Hey, Stag, this is Skeet. Guess what? We’ve got some more party spots!
Stag: Relax, DEP’s done it. That means it’s a done deal! Cool dude! We can party to our heart’s content. TDC keeps bringing folks in, you know, along with all those folks who think wetlands are so great.
Skeet: Security? Hey, those folks keep coming in who think it’s terrible to mess up our home. If they only knew. Ha, ha! I’ve got more blood than I can drink myself, plenty for all my kids. We’re having a very good season!
Stag: For me? Don’t worry. Plenty of still water. They don’t want to touch it. They think they are saving the land for their children. If they only knew my water will kill their children! Just wait for another hurricane or big storm. I’ll get spilled out!
Skeet: Oh, what a time we’re having. Looking for something big out of this, maybe another plague or something. Remember the one we had with malaria some years back? Yeah, we hit a lot with that one, most folks now don’t even know about it! We’ve had several rounds with spinal meningitis, aids, and what about West Nile Virus? But folks today just think that medicine can cure everything. They don’t think they need to do anything to clean up their land. Yea, the days when the Mosquito Control was a real threat, sure glad people don’t realize minnows eat us! Let them keep the puddles wet and stagnant!
Stag: Crazy? Yeah, so let’s party!

I have read this thread and was wondering if you would explain your point. I know their are two sides to every story and I am not sure I get yours. We all know the "bugs" would be out of control without help from mosquito control but what does that have to do with filling in wetlands without the proper permits?

Florida Girl -- it's clear you've been here longer than most of the people who post here, and clearly you love this place. I'd encourage you to drive by this lot on Silverleaf (from 98 go north on Bay Dr., right on E. Point Washington, then take the third left [at the Grayton Bayou sign], right on Greenbriar, then turn left toward the bay and turn right on Silverleaf) and see what was done for yourself, and then see if you still think I'm being a tree hugging liberal who doesn't understand the ecosystem because I was appalled by what I saw.

I lived in New Orleans for a while, and New Orleans is a textbook study in what happens when you drain wetlands and add a little dirt and build a neighborhood -- see Lakeview, Hollygrove, Holy Cross, Lower 9th Ward, etc. I hope you will understand why I consider it immoral to illegally fill a wetland to build a house to then turn around and sell to someone who doesn't know the swampy history of the lot.

Also, I think if you see Silverleaf, you will see that the person who wreaked all this havoc was not getting rid of a wetland to make the neighborhood safer and more enjoyable for everyone. He/she just bulldozed and piled a bunch of dirt on the piece he/she owned, pushing the water onto other lots and creating standing pools of stagnant water all around the perimeter of the dirt mound.

I am no great lover of swamps and wetlands, I don't find them beautiful and I certainly am not a fan of mosquitoes. I do, however, think God created a delicate balance with the land on the coast and the wetlands serve a purpose. I think when men act to disturb that balance, they can never really predict the consequences of their actions. I think that even if we surrounded the land south of the bay to the beach with seawalls and filled in all the wetlands we'd still have mosquitoes (just as they did in New Orleans). If we really want to do that, though, we should at least expect that people will follow the legal process to do so, so that they don't steal property value from their neighbors by simply diverting the water onto formerly dry land.

Finally, with your connections, do you think you can get the mosquito truck to drive extra slow by my house?

:clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1:

Florida Girl -- it's clear you've been here longer than most of the people who post here, and clearly you love this place. I'd encourage you to drive by this lot on Silverleaf (from 98 go north on Bay Dr., right on E. Point Washington, then take the third left [at the Grayton Bayou sign], right on Greenbriar, then turn left toward the bay and turn right on Silverleaf) and see what was done for yourself, and then see if you still think I'm being a tree hugging liberal who doesn't understand the ecosystem because I was appalled by what I saw.

I lived in New Orleans for a while, and New Orleans is a textbook study in what happens when you drain wetlands and add a little dirt and build a neighborhood -- see Lakeview, Hollygrove, Holy Cross, Lower 9th Ward, etc. I hope you will understand why I consider it immoral to illegally fill a wetland to build a house to then turn around and sell to someone who doesn't know the swampy history of the lot.

Also, I think if you see Silverleaf, you will see that the person who wreaked all this havoc was not getting rid of a wetland to make the neighborhood safer and more enjoyable for everyone. He/she just bulldozed and piled a bunch of dirt on the piece he/she owned, pushing the water onto other lots and creating standing pools of stagnant water all around the perimeter of the dirt mound.

I am no great lover of swamps and wetlands, I don't find them beautiful and I certainly am not a fan of mosquitoes. I do, however, think God created a delicate balance with the land on the coast and the wetlands serve a purpose. I think when men act to disturb that balance, they can never really predict the consequences of their actions. I think that even if we surrounded the land south of the bay to the beach with seawalls and filled in all the wetlands we'd still have mosquitoes (just as they did in New Orleans). If we really want to do that, though, we should at least expect that people will follow the legal process to do so, so that they don't steal property value from their neighbors by simply diverting the water onto formerly dry land.

Finally, with your connections, do you think you can get the mosquito truck to drive extra slow by my house?

First of all, there are many developers that are just ruthless hogs. I'm not familiar with the property you described, I did look it up on Google Earth, and I don't see much. How large is the lot? I do know that permits are necessary to clear and fill. To say that our fathers were not concerned about, nor protective of our wetlands is seriously in error. The preferable method of "eradication" of the mosquito was "low land" drainage into managed "wetlands", allowing "nature" i.e. minnows, martins, bats, etc. to do their job. There always has been, and always will be those who have no apparent heart, nor consideration for their neighbors, and do horrendous things to the land. Selfishness and greed are the major factors there. However, to think that allowing nature to go uncontrolled will solve the problem is simply incorrect. If so, why call an exterminator to get rid of the bugs in your house? Or why take an antibiotic to cure a disease? I have seen "nature" growing on my roof as trees! Do you think I should have left them there? I have seen "nature" completely take over a house and collapse it to the ground. "Nature" to close to your house will cause you?re siding to rot, and cause ?nature? to come into your house in the form of mildew, roaches, etc.
Secondly, the description of "wetlands" has changed dramatically in the past few years, what was once just a low land, has become a protected wetland. There?s where I have a problem.
Thirdly, there also is the issue of state owned lands in South Walton. Do you know that the state owns more than 19,000 acres in South Walton? If they are so concerned about ?Wetlands?, then why don?t they exchange the privately owned wetland, with an equal share of state owned high ground? But then you get into the issue of the rights of property ownership. Does a property owner have the right to do as they wish with land they pay taxes on? I know an older couple in South Walton that bought 7 acres of land to retire and spend time with their grandchildren, but do to wetland mitigation; they are only able to do anything with half of it. They live in the middle of the woods, and try to maintain the grounds around their home constantly battling mosquitoes, gnats, etc. I don?t believe its right, and these people, as well as others suffer greatly from the decisions made by individuals in government agencies that really have no practical knowledge, they only know what they have learned in college, from biased professors with their own agenda. They believe everything they are told, not questioning its accuracy, nor comparing it with the other side of the story.
Then there is the perception of ?mother earth?. The philosophy that the earth is somehow spiritual, and to be treated as such has always been around, called by different names. With that is the notion of animal spirituality, thus humans are little more than a glob of tissue on the food chain, with no superiority, or authority on this planet.
Concerning New Orleans, it was terrible what happened, but it was inevitable, unfortunately. They built homes on the sinking Mississippi River Basin. It?s been sinking for years. That is not the same category as what I am speaking of here. Mosquitoes can hatch in only a quarter of a cup of water. A lot of trash is to blame in many cases, even leaves.
With my connections? Anyone can call the Mosquito control and ask them to spray the area on their street, you don?t need special connections. The best way to control Mosquitoes? Clean up your yard of anything that holds water, rake the leaves up. Clean out the ditches so that the water is flowing through it and not standing, or getting plugged up anywhere. That?s what I do at my place, and as long as there is vacant land undisturbed, you will have Mosquitoes. Just hope your neighbors don?t have a terrible disease.

For those of you who don't remember, Floridagirl's dad was the pioneer of the mosquito control around here, digging drainage ditches and filling them with Poison. Without the Mosquito Control, we would have more mosquitos, but we wouldn't be blasted with poisons sprayed from airplanes during the summer and we wouldn't be breathing in the poisons which they spray into the air from a truck, as they drive around our streets. Some people say that I have organic produce in my yard, but I have to always mention that the produce is sprayed from the road by the poison truck (mosquito control).

Screen and my homemade non-poisonous solutions work pretty well for me, and there is always the A/C inside, from which to escape. ;-)

Dad would roll over in his grave! Good thing he can't hear you! You know, if there was an alternative to the "poisons" that actually worked on a large scale, I'm sure it would be considered. However, the choice between Mosquito "poison" and the diseases caused by Mosquitoes has been made in favor of "poison". I know a woman that was bit by a Mosquito as a child and within 24 hours almost died and was left in a horrible state. They keep her in a padded room with diapers, and have to lead her with a leash because her brain function was so damaged.

Secondly, the description of "wetlands" has changed dramatically in the past few years, what was once just a low land, has become a protected wetland. There?s where I have a problem.

I have not run into this. All of my wetland studies have been based on soil samples and foliage. Have never heard of low lands being declared wetlands.

I have not run into this. All of my wetland studies have been based on soil samples and foliage. Have never heard of low lands being declared wetlands.

Just how long have you been doing this? Dad died in 1975.

:roll: