Obama's energy plan

[Minnie]

To each his own. But you can't have any of mine when the ban kicks in, so don't even ask. :rofl:

This so reminds me of the Seinfield, Sponge Worthy episode, thanks for the laugh in the middle of all the seriousness.

On another forum I read, an Exxon engineer said the US will have to greatly reduce consumption before cutting back on domestic drilling in order to fulfill their OPEC agreement.

 

[30ashopper]

Slinky, I agree with you that any phasing out of petroleum will be slow, slow, slow. But it would be much faster if people would get real that technology isn't what's stopping it from being fast, fast, fast.

I love when the special interest groups air commercials talking about the energy resources of the future. They show us cars that will someday run on hydrogen. It's so brilliant that they completely skip over the technology that is ready to go now (and has been ready) so that the masses think we are waiting on options... Ugh!

I haven't done the math but I'm pretty sure if our congress passed a law that required every production automobile to be offered in a hybrid version that the resulting reduction in consumption would exceed what we produce domestically.

But I don't want to drive a hybrid. I work from home, and consume less gas in a year than the average commuter consumes in a month. This law you propose would punish me to change the behavior of others. Why should I be punished? Instead, lets pass a law that tracks vehicle mileage, and anyone caught driving over say 4K miles a year, pays a major fine, say, 20% of their gross income. Does that work for you Geo?

 

[Geo]

My thought was that automakers simply be required to offer every model as a hybrid (alongside its gas guzzling counterpart) and then offer unbelievable Incentives to consumers who choose the hybrid version and a big tax on the nonhybrid version.

If you want to go against the country's efforts to become energy independent and to protect the environment (or you just want to burn more fossil fuels because you can) then go right ahead. But it'll cost you.

That's one way of doing it.

 

[30ashopper]

My thought was that automakers simply be required to offer every model as a hybrid (alongside its gas guzzling counterpart) and then offer unbelievable Incentives to consumers who choose the hybrid version and a big tax on the nonhybrid version.

If you want to go against the country's efforts to become energy independent and to protect the environment (or you just want to burn more fossil fuels because you can) then go right ahead. But it'll cost you.

That's one way of doing it.

That would punish people who couldn't afford a hybrid. If you really want to curb use, the simplest and proven solution would be to raise the gas tax over a period of time by about 2-3- dollars.

 

[30A Skunkape]

My thought was that automakers simply be required to offer every model as a hybrid (alongside its gas guzzling counterpart) and then offer unbelievable Incentives to consumers who choose the hybrid version and a big tax on the nonhybrid version.

If you want to go against the country's efforts to become energy independent and to protect the environment (or you just want to burn more fossil fuels because you can) then go right ahead. But it'll cost you.

That's one way of doing it.

I heard on NPR this morning that the last civilian Hummer rolled off the assembly line yesterday. It seems that sometimes the markets can work in sensible automobile production (or phase out), too.

I'm looking forward to see how the Volt does.

 

[Geo]

Shopper, I don't think you fully got my last clarification. My idea is to make the hybrid cheaper than the standard gas guzzling model (after factoring in govt incentives for the hybrid and the tax hit for the standard).

 

[Geo]

The general sentiment is that hybrids (led by the Toyota Prius) have been a big success. While I am excited that they are helping to bring about a bit of a paradigm shift for automakers and consumers alike, I am disappointed they haven't done better.

Some say the reason more folks don't buy hybrids is because they are too expensive. I have also heard people say that the reason they don't go hybrid is because the battery life isn't long enough. While this might be true for folks considering it, I believe others don't consider the hybrid at all for a very different reason- vanity.

Hybrids (and electric cars like the EV1) aren't attractive. Automakers have been designing them as standalone models intended to look futuristic. Consumers have had a choice- buy a car that they like or buy a car that is ecofriendly.

This is a big part of why I am saying if we want to reduce dependency quickly we should force automakers to offer every model as a hybrid. Consumers would then have a choice- they could buy the car they like in one of two flavors- the gas guzzler or the ecofriendly version.

This is so very obvious to me. America's love affair with automobiles is based on the superficial. Only Ed Begley types want to look like Ed Begley.

 

[Lynnie]

the founding slaveholders had oil lamps, wood fires, candles and moonlight

And, you look better in this kind of lighting.

A GF still uses lighted make up mirrors! THE HORROR! No wonder she wears so much make-up; everyone looks like dookie in those things. Ironically, they are no longer manufactured.

 

[30ashopper]

Shopper, I don't think you fully got my last clarification. My idea is to make the hybrid cheaper than the standard gas guzzling model (after factoring in govt incentives for the hybrid and the tax hit for the standard).

IMHO, you haven't made anything cheaper, you're just subsidizing the cost. Which removes any real incentive to make cheaper hybrids. Long term, your plan will have negative repercussions - mounting government debt and dependence on the part of the auto manufacturers.

If you want government to persuade people to drive less, make it more expensive to drive.

 

[Geo]

Disagree. The economies of scale haven't had a chance to kick in yet because there aren't a whole lot of hybrids being produced. And I'm not wanting any net new subsidies. Take half of the subsidies being paid for corn for ethanol and transfer over to tax incentives for hybrids.

My approach is fast and proactive and rewards consumers. Yours is slow and forces folks to make painful decisions.

You do not sound serious at all about finding a viable solution that will make people happy (besides the oil companies)...