Overly-Assessed Property Values in Florida -- a legal loophole in favor of gov't?

[Smiling JOe]

Ever wonder how the Gov't built in a cushion regarding doc stamps on the deed, as we see people short selling? Here is a trick found in the rules. They still collect the doc stamps on the amount of the consideration forgiven. Some genius was working overtime to think up that one, long in advance of this market turning downward. Makes me wonder about the Property assessments, too, since I believe the "sales price" on the Property Appraiser's records are not the actual sales price, but the esitmated sales price, based on the amount of the doc stamps paid. So, if I am correct, that means that we will see overly-inflated valuations, and those will be used to keep assessed values higher than they should be, due to this evil language in the FS 201.02. I'm sure that they thought no one would ever read those laws, but I guess I'm not your average Joe.

So, as we see short sales all around us, we will never likely see those lower our assessed values, because they will appear to be sold at prices higher than accurate, based on the amount of the doc stamps. Be sure to thank your Florida legislatures.

I would love to be proved wrong. Anyone else want to take a stab at interpreting this law differently? Please.

Florida Statute 201.02:
[SIZE=-1]201.02 Tax on deeds and other instruments relating to real property or interests in real property.-- [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) On deeds, instruments, or writings whereby any lands, tenements, or other real property, or any interest therein, shall be granted, assigned, transferred, or otherwise conveyed to, or vested in, the purchaser or any other person by his or her direction, on each $100 of the consideration therefor the tax shall be 70 cents. When the full amount of the consideration for the execution, assignment, transfer, or conveyance is not shown in the face of such deed, instrument, document, or writing, the tax shall be at the rate of 70 cents for each $100 or fractional part thereof of the consideration therefor. For purposes of this section, consideration includes, but is not limited to, the money paid or agreed to be paid; the discharge of an obligation; and the amount of any mortgage, purchase money mortgage lien, or other encumbrance, whether or not the underlying indebtedness is assumed. If the consideration paid or given in exchange for real property or any interest therein includes property other than money, it is presumed that the consideration is equal to the fair market value of the real property or interest therein.... [/SIZE]

 

[TooFarTampa]

It would seem like these are totally different departments, and the departments don't actually talk to each other, do they? This is government!

I would be far more interested to see how the short sales are being recorded by a) the clerk of courts and b) the property appraiser's office. Can anyone with knowledge of specific short sales transactions tell us whether the "right" price has shown up at waltonpa.com?

 

[Smiling JOe]

It is interesting. When banks take back the property, sometimes, they are waiting to record the transfer until they sell the property as a REO, so that they don't have to come out of pocket to pay the doc stamps. Furthermore, the bank who takes back the property via foreclosure, is often selling those properties in a group package to another bank, which would mean doc stamps x2 if they recorded both deed transfers. So, in those cases of foreclosures, we don't even see them in the Clerk's records nor the Appraisers Records, which comes from the Clerk of Court's info. The only way we would even know that they may have happened is by searching through the Lis Pendens filed. That stuff smells of deceit on the part of some banks.

 

[scooterbug44]

I think the banks need to be taken outside and beaten w/ a sock full of quarters until they stop trying to constantly circumvent the laws and regulations.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I may be wrong about the automated calculations of the Property Appraiser's assessed values, but if they are using those sale prices listed in the Property Appraiser's records, to base other property's assessed values, that would be SO wrong.

 

[Smiling JOe]

It would seem like these are totally different departments, and the departments don't actually talk to each other, do they? This is government!

I would be far more interested to see how the short sales are being recorded by a) the clerk of courts and b) the property appraiser's office. Can anyone with knowledge of specific short sales transactions tell us whether the "right" price has shown up at waltonpa.com?

It would take a little time to go through each one, but according to the FS 201.02, they are required to do it this way. I just pulled up a list of short sales from last year, and clicked on one to peek. Property sold as a short sale in Sept 08 for $310,000. On Property Appraiser's site, transaction of that sale shows the price of $514,000. As I noted, that "price" on the PA's site isn't necessarily the price at which a property sold. It is calculated based on the doc stamps, which they get from the Clerk of Courts. If the doc stamps are required to be paid (as stated in FS 201.02) on the actual consideration, plus the deficiency, that price on the PA's sight is very incorrect in these short sale situations.

Edit: Maybe I got lucky on that first one. I just randomly checked four other short sales from 2008 and found the price on the Property Appraiser's site to correspond with the amount of the sale noted in the MLS. (keep your mouth shut, ShallowsNole. Mum is the word.)

 

[scooterbug44]

WHY DO THEY HAVE TO KEEP MAKING EVERYTHING SO COMPLICATED AND SCREWED UP?!? :angry:

The banks screwed up, they need to take their lumps and get past it so this mess can get cleared up.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I think the banks need to be taken outside and beaten w/ a sock full of quarters until they stop trying to constantly circumvent the laws and regulations.

They are being very sneaky, but legally speaking, I do not think there is a law requiring a buyer to record the deed. Recording the deed just gives public notice, and will make it easier for the public to know who owns the property, which can come in handy for many reasons.

 

[TooFarTampa]

It would take a little time to go through each one, but according to the FS 201.02, they are required to do it this way. I just pulled up a list of short sales from last year, and clicked on one to peek. Property sold as a short sale in Sept 08 for $310,000. On Property Appraiser's site, transaction of that sale shows the price of $514,000. As I noted, that "price" on the PA's site isn't necessarily the price at which a property sold. It is calculated based on the doc stamps, which they get from the Clerk of Courts. If the doc stamps are required to be paid (as stated in FS 201.02) on the actual consideration, plus the deficiency, that price on the PA's sight is very incorrect in these short sale situations.

Edit: Maybe I got lucky on that first one. I just randomly checked four other short sales from 2008 and found the price on the Property Appraiser's site to correspond with the amount of the sale noted in the MLS. (keep your mouth shut, ShallowsNole. Mum is the word.)

Thanks SJ. If you or other short-sale specialists can dig up info on one or two other properties and you see that it has been done the same way, let me know. If it is being done this way statewide, I can pass the info along to some people I know with big loud horns. ;-)

 

[Smiling JOe]

If I get a chance this afternoon, I will call the PA's office and confirm that the price on their info is based solely upon the doc stamps. I will also contact my friendly title company, and see how they calculate the doc stamps. Maybe some title companies don't know about FS 201.02.

EDIT: I just checked my last short sale, and the doc stamps were calculated on the sales price, not the amount seemingly required according to FS 201.02