President Bush's Mess

[hnooe]

Tootsie, this has been bothering me all morning. When did speaking proper English; behaving in a respectful, dignified manner; and wanting a good education make one "elite" and when did being "elite" become a bad thing.
When I went to high school and college years ago, a classical education was a goal to be proud of; my parents sacrified a lot so that I could go to school and they always encouraged me to do my best.

Now, I spend many hours each week working with students who are attempting to get a good education--most of them against some tremendous challenges and obstacles. They come to school because they believe that learning proper English and learning to write in an effective way will make their lives better...
they study hard and sacrifice many things to become educated.

Many of them are parents who want more for their children; many are members of the military who want to become more informed and better able to be promoted; many are older people who have raised their families on salaries earned from a minimum wage job, and now that the children are in school, they have started college--in several cases we have parents and children in the same classes!

When they watch the President of the United States speak and behave as he did yesterday...what are they to think? When they ask me about it, what am I to say?

That education is not important; that speaking properly and writing well are not goals they should continue to achieve...because if the do, then God forbid, they become an "elite" American......

1,000 Thank Yous!

 

[30A Skunkape]

Meanwhile the Iranians are looking forward to the new head-demon-in-charge.

 

[TooFarTampa]

I never said it was rightous, but I'll stand by what I said. "a blip in our county's history." Our nation as a whole, has a short memory, there's no getting around that fact.

How long we remember is directly related to the chart you posted a link to on the other thread:

The longer and harder the fall, the longer we will remember. It seems the lessons from the Depression started fading in the early '80s or just before, somewhere between the time the oil crisis ended and the great bull market began.

We lost any conservation-minded habits around the time the Ford Bronco II became the Ford Explorer, in the early '90s.

I don't think we will face another Great Depression, but the habits we are learning now under duress may well last a generation.

In hindsight I bet we will say it was a pendulum swing that ultimately was unavoidable. That doesn't make it any more fun.

 

[30ashopper]

Go after the people/terrorist group ACTUALLY involved, send in our special ops, then go on the television and say "these people are terrorists and this is what happens to people who attack the USA and kill innocent civilians", and show the footage of us blowing them up w/ a smart bomb.

Maybe say something about how "they betrayed the teachings of the Koran" to contain any outrage from the Arab world.

Do you think anyone would have objected if we had done that instead of invading Iraq (where Saddam kept Al Queda at bay because they threatened his power BTW)?

special forces assault on bin laden...the road to him has never been through baghdad or kabul. we will eventually leave afghanistan just as the soviet union did...just as we are leaving iraq....wondering what the hell we are accomplishing by staying.

That's exactly what we did in Afghanistan. You guys really do have short memories. Don't you remember all the press leading up to the war reagrding where Osama was?

As far as what we leave behind in Afghanistan, I'm much more optimistic than Bob. For starters we will leave behind a democratic government, which we will continue to support. We also leave it in the hands of individuals who are against groups like the Talaban. Many of which, like the Northern Alliance, fought against the Soviets and fought with us against Taliban rule. Overall I'm optimistic. I seriously doubt factions of the Taliban will be able to overthrow the government again, not with our backing. The country does have issues, is a lack of resources for example, but in time I hope they'll work through that.

You guys seem to think everything we've done in the last eight years will fail, which I'm sure is tied to your dislike of Bush. However, I'd be willing to bet history will prove you both wrong.

 

[LuciferSam]

That's exactly what we did in Afghanistan. You guys really do have short memories. Don't you remember all the press leading up to the war reagrding where Osama was?

As far as what we leave behind in Afghanistan, I'm much more optimistic than Bob. For starters we will leave behind a democratic government, which we will continue to support. We also leave it in the hands of individuals who are against groups like the Talaban. Many of which, like the Northern Alliance, fought against the Soviets and fought with us against Taliban rule. Overall I'm optimistic. I seriously doubt factions of the Taliban will be able to overthrow the government again, not with our backing. The country does have issues, is a lack of resources for example, but in time I hope they'll work through that.

You guys seem to think everything we've done in the last eight years will fail, which I'm sure is tied to your dislike of Bush. However, I'd be willing to bet history will prove you both wrong.

If things get better it's only because time heals all wounds.

 

[scooterbug44]

We blew up Osama bin Laden? How did I miss that?

I would LOVE it if history proves me wrong and democratic governments flourish in Afganistan and Iraq and the Taliban fades away from lack of support.

However, that does not seem to be the current reality in either country. Last I heard the Taliban is doing quite well in Afganistan and our unofficial policy is Iraq is "good enough".

 

[IRIETYMES]

Bye bye

IMHO like so many others I have been a vocal critic of almost everything this dullard has done in his 8 years in office. There are those who would like to offer their qualified support of some of the things his admin has accomplished (Winnie) and seek to understand (I hope) what exactly riles some of us up, and what about the "mess he leaves behind." I doubt that many of us can explain exactly what the mess is, maybe all of us can explain what some part of "it" is or at least what "it" is to us as individuals. My list is long and often boring starting with his stealing the first election, then blah, blah, blah. So I'm just glad the Bounder is leaving. His team let him down. His team had their own agenda. His team had a belief system in place that confronts the American system of democracy. He let us down as Americans. We deserve better. The World deserves better. Maybe we will get that now. Maybe, just maybe the Washington syndrome that affects (and infects) anyone who goes there to serve the "People" will find a healing process we can live with and grow from, one that rewards honesty, straightforwardness, service to the People and for the People, not because or in spite of the People. Maybe the conservative Southern group can find common cause with the moderate as well as the liberal side and we can move from dead zero to progress. It is our hope. Maybe our last chance and hope before we turn to the Dark Side. LMAO. By the way, the Decider did get some bucks to Africa to assist in the reduction of AIDS through education, medicine and prevention. Everything else he touched turned to dung. My shoe follows out the door.

 

[poppy]

Tootsie, this has been bothering me all morning. When did speaking proper English; behaving in a respectful, dignified manner; and wanting a good education make one "elite" and when did being "elite" become a bad thing.
When I went to high school and college years ago, a classical education was a goal to be proud of; my parents sacrified a lot so that I could go to school and they always encouraged me to do my best.

Now, I spend many hours each week working with students who are attempting to get a good education--most of them against some tremendous challenges and obstacles. They come to school because they believe that learning proper English and learning to write in an effective way will make their lives better...
they study hard and sacrifice many things to become educated.

Many of them are parents who want more for their children; many are members of the military who want to become more informed and better able to be promoted; many are older people who have raised their families on salaries earned from a minimum wage job, and now that the children are in school, they have started college--in several cases we have parents and children in the same classes!

When they watch the President of the United States speak and behave as he did yesterday...what are they to think? When they ask me about it, what am I to say?

That education is not important; that speaking properly and writing well are not goals they should continue to achieve...because if the do, then God forbid, they become an "elite" American......

Out of work, uneducated, beer guzzling, tobacco chewing, camouflage clad rednecks with names like Track, Tripp, Trig, Bark, Snap, Crackle, and Pop who have pregnant teenage girlfriends are the new "elite".

 

[Bob]

That's exactly what we did in Afghanistan. You guys really do have short memories. Don't you remember all the press leading up to the war reagrding where Osama was?

As far as what we leave behind in Afghanistan, I'm much more optimistic than Bob. For starters we will leave behind a democratic government, which we will continue to support. We also leave it in the hands of individuals who are against groups like the Talaban. Many of which, like the Northern Alliance, fought against the Soviets and fought with us against Taliban rule. Overall I'm optimistic. I seriously doubt factions of the Taliban will be able to overthrow the government again, not with our backing. The country does have issues, is a lack of resources for example, but in time I hope they'll work through that.

You guys seem to think everything we've done in the last eight years will fail, which I'm sure is tied to your dislike of Bush. However, I'd be willing to bet history will prove you both wrong.

just like that democratic government in vietnam. our role in afghanistan is a war of occupation and attrition. the forces aligned against us are fighting for their own country just as the viet cong were fighting for their own turf. a history of afghanistan is available for you to read. we are fighting in a poppy strewn moonscape full of religious illiterates. the endgame will come when we realize the futility of the costly stalemate perpetuated by pakistan.

 

[30ashopper]

just like that democratic government in vietnam. our role in afghanistan is a war of occupation and attrition. the forces aligned against us are fighting for their own country just as the viet cong were fighting for their own turf. a history of afghanistan is available for you to read. we are fighting in a poppy strewn moonscape full of religious illiterates. the endgame will come when we realize the futility of the costly stalemate perpetuated by pakistan.

I'm quite familiar with the history of both, and I think your attempt to parallel the two is way off. You might choose to ignore the problem. Look where that got us. I'd prefer to be proactive in situations like this. Just my take.