President Bush's Mess

[Winnie]

ok, i'll explain it like i'm a third grader. New Orleans is far from finished with it's recovery, if it will ever be finished. Although I cannot directly blame bush for causing the hurricane, his response was weak(at best) and as soon as the outcry died down, he was done with it. how about we send NOLA a couple of billion? Mess. resolution: open

9/11 - more incompetence. did he have knowledge of an impending attack against US soil? who knows? Did he respond like any other human you know when given the info? no. The whole thing is riddled with questions and no answers coming soon from the bush camp. This is still an open issue for many New Yorkers and anyone who lost a loved one. He's done with this too, I'm pretty sure. Mess. Resolution: are you kidding me?

War- Which one would you like me to address?? Let's go with a simple one; War on terror. Seriously? We're no more safe then we were on 9/10. Our borders and control points are a joke. DHS and all it's power/control/whatever you want to call it have only made it more of an irritation to fly commercial. Mess. Resolution: please.

These are only three, the financial crisis, our standing in the eyes of the rest of the world, no child left behind, torture......... bush and his business partners had a great 8 years. what about the rest of us? he will be costing us money for as long as he, and his wife, and his children are alive. he can't disappear fast enough. yes, we can spread the blame around as far and wide as we care to. but guess who was at the head of the table? the decider

Thanks! This answers what I am curious about well. I appreciate you being clear and specific.

 

[poppy]

Why is it the Federal Government's responsibility to rebuild New Orleans?

Because Bush said it was:

"To every person who has served and sacrificed in this emergency, I offer the gratitude of our country. And tonight I also offer this pledge of the American people: Throughout the area hit by the hurricane, we will do what it takes. We will stay as long as it takes to help citizens rebuild their communities and their lives. And all who question the future of the Crescent City need to know: There is no way to imagine America without New Orleans, and this great city will rise again."

Excerpt from Bush speech in New Orleans on 9/15/05

Conspiracy theories aside, we were attacked, and went to war within a month and a half. After a year of destroying the enemy the war and rebuilding effort was turned over to NATO to manage at the behest of the U.N.. Granted Iraq took away resources, but I fail to see how he mishandled this in any way shape or form. Quite the contrary, he handled it extremely well. God forbid All Gore was in his shoes, we probably would have responded by bombing a milk factory or two.

Apparently God did forbid Al Gore to Be in those shoes. According to Bush he was Gods personal choice to be POTUS

The financial crisis was OUR fault, not Bush's. I know you think it's the responsibility of government to take us by the hand and lead down the road of prosperity, protecting us all the way from our own silly mistakes. I disagree. So I don't fault Bush one iota on the financial crisis. This is an ideological difference, so there's not much chance we'll change each other's opinion. Just bear in mind there are those out there who completely disagree with you on this point.

This was not my fault. I have a credit rating above 800. I pay my bills.

Data to back that claim up please?

Seven years and Osama is still at large, the Taliban is stronger than ever in Afghanistan, and Al-Quieda has more members in more countries than before 911

Torture - Aside from what happened at Abu Ghraib (for which those responsible should roast), I still haven't seen any solid evidence of this.

You will, just wait

International standing - Another ideological difference. We carry the rest of the world on our backs, and China carries us on theirs. We will always be the whipping boy as long as we are number one. Such is life. I'm not about to start apologizing for working toward our own self interests, that's what everyone else is doing, so why shouldn't we do the same? Granted, Id be all for a good dose of isolationism right now, but we wont see it. Both Dems and Reps like to throw their weight around the world, just in different ways.

You may not care what the world thinks of us but most do. Maintaining a good reputation Globally is to everyones advantage.

 

[Winnie]

I'm with you scooty.



Bush's brief but high approval rating declined throughout his presidency, ending in an historic low (23% I believe). If you think a president's approval rating of his performance is not relevant, then why do you want to hear anyone's opinions on his performance?

maybe you should tell us how you think President Bush has performed over the last 8 years. that would be much more to the point. since there are those who do approve of his performance, it would be much more interesting to hear and understand that viewpoint. seriously.

of course we all come from so many different perspectives. there is no "code". just fact, opinion, philosophy, and exchange of ideas.

Intellectual curiosity. Just like I'm sure Obama's supporters would wonder how any intelligent person could not support him. I think there are many intelligent people on this board and wonder what drives their opinions.

Shortly after 9/11, I remember thinking how grateful I am that President Bush was elected and I still am. It is and was scary to me, imagining Gore as President at that time. There are things Bush has done or supported that I am against.

However, I am 100% behind his decision to go into Iraq. The UN was wrong not to back us up. How many resolutions had they issued? 19? Every time Sadam ignored them. Sadam could have relented even an hour before we attacked but chose not to. I know many people think idle threats are a great way to deal in foreign policy, but I don't. I think the UN should either stay out of it or back up their threats. I would have preferred we stay out, but under the circumstances and given the available intelligence, it was absolutely the right choice for us to go in. I wish things would have gone differently. I'm confident that President Bush does as well.

You may be right that there is no code in saying "Bush's mess." It is possible that some people just can't articulate what they mean by that.

 

[full time]

OK Poppy - lets test my theory since you apparently agree with JohnR that the US needs to dump a couple of billion in reparations to the City of New Orleans. Who in a leadership position in the City (remember that Jindal is a State official) would you recommend to oversee disbursement of that federal largess? Before answering, I would suggest you review the website for the USDC, Eastern District to ensure that your choice is not indicted or in prison.

 

[Winnie]

OK Poppy - lets test my theory since you apparently agree with JohnR that the US needs to dump a couple of billion in reparations to the City of New Orleans. Who in a leadership position in the City (remember that Jindal is a State official) would you recommend to oversee disbursement of that federal largess? Before answering, I would suggest you review the website for the USDC, Eastern District to ensure that your choice is not indicted or in prison.

 

[poppy]

OK Poppy - lets test my theory since you apparently agree with JohnR that the US needs to dump a couple of billion in reparations to the City of New Orleans. Who in a leadership position in the City (remember that Jindal is a State official) would you recommend to oversee disbursement of that federal largess? Before answering, I would suggest you review the website for the USDC, Eastern District to ensure that your choice is not indicted or in prison.

I have no idea what your so called theory is so I'll skip over that. Why does it have to be a local? Anyway, you will need to ask Bush about an overseer since he made the promise not me.

 

[scooterbug44]

Anyway, you will need to ask Bush about an overseer since he made the promise not me.

Because when I think "great at finding highly qualified and skilled people to do important jobs" I think Bush. :roll:

 

[poppy]

Intellectual curiosity. Just like I'm sure Obama's supporters would wonder how any intelligent person could not support him. I think there are many intelligent people on this board and wonder what drives their opinions.

Shortly after 9/11, I remember thinking how grateful I am that President Bush was elected and I still am. It is and was scary to me, imagining Gore as President at that time. There are things Bush has done or supported that I am against.

However, I am 100% behind his decision to go into Iraq. The UN was wrong not to back us up. How many resolutions had they issued? 19? Every time Sadam ignored them. Sadam could have relented even an hour before we attacked but chose not to. I know many people think idle threats are a great way to deal in foreign policy, but I don't. I think the UN should either stay out of it or back up their threats. I would have preferred we stay out, but under the circumstances and given the available intelligence, it was absolutely the right choice for us to go in. I wish things would have gone differently. I'm confident that President Bush does as well.

You may be right that there is no code in saying "Bush's mess." It is possible that some people just can't articulate what they mean by that.

1. Resolution 248: " ... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
2. Resolution 250: " ... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
3. Resolution 251: " ... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
4. Resolution 252: " ... 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
5. Resolution 256: " ... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
6. Resolution 259: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
7. Resolution 262: " ... 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
8. Resolution 265: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
9. Resolution 267: " ... 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
10. Resolution 270: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
11. Resolution 271: " ... 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
12. Resolution 279: " ... 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
13. Resolution 280: " ... 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
14. Resolution 285: " ... 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
15. Resolution 298: " ... 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
16. Resolution 313: " ... 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
17. Resolution 316: " ... 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
18. Resolution 317: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
19. Resolution 332: " ... 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
20. Resolution 337: " ... 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
21. Resolution 347: " ... 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
22. Resolution 425 (1978): " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of 16 June 2000.
23. Resolution 427: " ... 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon".
24. Resolution 444: " ... 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
25. Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
26. Resolution 450: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
27. Resolution 452: " ... 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
28. Resolution 465: " ... 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
29. Resolution 467: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
30. Resolution 468: " ... 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
31. Resolution 469: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
32. Resolution 471: " ... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
33. Resolution 476: " ... 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
34. Resolution 478 (20 August 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.
35. Resolution 484: " ... 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
36. Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
37. Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
38. Resolution 498: " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
39. Resolution 501: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
40. Resolution 508:
41. Resolution 509: " ... 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
42. Resolution 515: " ... 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
43. Resolution 517: " ... 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
44. Resolution 518: " ... 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
45. Resolution 520: " ... 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
46. Resolution 573: " ... 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
47. Resolution 587 " ... 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
48. Resolution 592: " ... 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
49. Resolution 605: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
50. Resolution 607: " ... 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
51. Resolution 608: " ... 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
52. Resolution 636: " ... 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
53. Resolution 641: " ... 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
54. Resolution 672: " ... 'condemns' Israel for "violence against Palestinians" at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
55. Resolution 673: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
56. Resolution 681: " ... 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
57. Resolution 694: " ... 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
58. Resolution 726: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
59. Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
60. Resolution 1648 (21 December 2005) renewed the mandate of United Nations Disengagement Observer Force until 30 June 2006.
61. Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah.

Should we now invade Isreal?

 

[Winnie]

1. Resolution 248: " ... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
2. Resolution 250: " ... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
3. Resolution 251: " ... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
4. Resolution 252: " ... 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
5. Resolution 256: " ... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
6. Resolution 259: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
7. Resolution 262: " ... 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
8. Resolution 265: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
9. Resolution 267: " ... 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
10. Resolution 270: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
11. Resolution 271: " ... 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
12. Resolution 279: " ... 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
13. Resolution 280: " ... 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
14. Resolution 285: " ... 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
15. Resolution 298: " ... 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
16. Resolution 313: " ... 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
17. Resolution 316: " ... 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
18. Resolution 317: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
19. Resolution 332: " ... 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
20. Resolution 337: " ... 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
21. Resolution 347: " ... 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
22. Resolution 425 (1978): " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of 16 June 2000.
23. Resolution 427: " ... 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon".
24. Resolution 444: " ... 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
25. Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
26. Resolution 450: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
27. Resolution 452: " ... 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
28. Resolution 465: " ... 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
29. Resolution 467: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
30. Resolution 468: " ... 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
31. Resolution 469: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
32. Resolution 471: " ... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
33. Resolution 476: " ... 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
34. Resolution 478 (20 August 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.
35. Resolution 484: " ... 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
36. Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
37. Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
38. Resolution 498: " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
39. Resolution 501: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
40. Resolution 508:
41. Resolution 509: " ... 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
42. Resolution 515: " ... 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
43. Resolution 517: " ... 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
44. Resolution 518: " ... 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
45. Resolution 520: " ... 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
46. Resolution 573: " ... 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
47. Resolution 587 " ... 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
48. Resolution 592: " ... 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
49. Resolution 605: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
50. Resolution 607: " ... 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
51. Resolution 608: " ... 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
52. Resolution 636: " ... 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
53. Resolution 641: " ... 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
54. Resolution 672: " ... 'condemns' Israel for "violence against Palestinians" at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
55. Resolution 673: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
56. Resolution 681: " ... 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
57. Resolution 694: " ... 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
58. Resolution 726: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
59. Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
60. Resolution 1648 (21 December 2005) renewed the mandate of United Nations Disengagement Observer Force until 30 June 2006.
61. Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah.

Should we now invade Isreal?

No.

Isreal is repeatedly in violation of which resolutions?
From the same Wikipedia page you site above: "Resolutions concerning Israel have never invoked Chapter VII of the UN Charter."

Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter sets out the UN Security Council's powers to maintain peace. It allows the Council to "determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression" and to take military and nonmilitary action to "restore international peace and security". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_VII_of_the_United_Nations_Charter

 

[poppy]

No.

Isreal is repeatedly in violation of which resolutions?
From the same Wikipedia page you site above: "Resolutions concerning Israel have never invoked Chapter VII of the UN Charter."

Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter sets out the UN Security Council's powers to maintain peace. It allows the Council to "determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression" and to take military and nonmilitary action to "restore international peace and security". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_VII_of_the_United_Nations_Charter

Look at all the condemns, deplores, censures, strongly deplores, regrets, and demands in this list. These guys have been bad boys, just look at this rap sheet. I say we nuke em. Besides they wouldn't join the coalition of the willing and they attacked one of our war ships in the past so they can't be our friends. Let's rid the world of them and plant some date palm orchards.