TooFarTampa
SoWal Insider
Hmmm ... well, as we've seen this week, I guess that does happen all the time. :shock:
privatization of social security
- Thread starter jensieblue
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Hmmm ... well, as we've seen this week, I guess that does happen all the time. :shock:
how about a flat tax to keep those low earners down?
The annual return of the Vanguard SP500 Index fund is 6.79%. A few years ago, I read that the Social Security trust fund averages annual returns of 1% hence part of the problem. If you take any ten year period in the history of the stock market, stocks make money.
Social security can be addressed through a roll back of benefits and an increase in the retirement age. This we simply have to accept. If you're collecting sooner rather than later, please give me a thanks cause I'm the guy who's nice enough to pay for better benefits for you than I'll ever see.
The big entitlement problem is medicare - as healthcare becomes more advanced, it also becomes more expensive. This country will not be able to afford medicare 20 years from now.
And before you start talking about how Obama is going to fix things
please do a little research into countries that have completely solicalized systems. They are already in crisis, and are currently rolling back benefits like crazy (and raising taxes to boot) to cover rising costs. Side note - I was just up in Canada this week and had a great chance to discuss Canada's system with the natives. Thier system is showing signs of weakness just like ours is (but in different ways due to their model). Healthcare is currently the center of Canada's election debates as well.
The jist of things - it doesn't make any difference which model you choose, they all have flaws and every system out there is experiencing a crisis down the road due to rising costs and the post WWII population boom.
The short term solutions are all the same - a roll back of benefits for those that can't afford it, more money being spent on increasingly expensive care, and reform on overhead. The long term solutions are pretty obvious too - free market competition with R&D into better, lower cost care. For now, higher medical costs are simply a fact of life we simply have to accept. There are ways to reduce costs, which we need to implement. Unfortunately neither of our candidates has a perfect solution.
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What some people don't seem to grasp is that S.S is not an investment
program; it is an insurance program. By paying "premiums," one is entitled
(yes, entitled) to a never-ending stream of income regardless of how long
one lives. Note that I did not say never decreasing.
If one purchases auto insurance and never uses it (i.e., submits no claims)
one is not entitled to a return of premiums. Similarly, if one pays S.S.
one's whole life, and then croaks (2) days before retirement, tough.
And if one retires @ age 62 and then collects S.S for the next 50 years,
good for them (bad for others).
Those in favor of "private accounts" in leu of S.S. totally overlook the fact
that such private accounts are already available (IRA, 401K, 403B, etc.) and
that a properly-planned retirement would rely both on such accounts and also
with the hedge of an annuity-like insurance product; ie. S.S.
As to the issues facing S.S, the solution is simple: a combination of
increasing the tax rate, increasing the amount of income taxed, and
decreasing benefits. The sooner this is accomplsihed, the better the
outcome.
The realty is that the goverment does not have the money to pay for S.S.
or Medicare or the Iraq war or the plethora of bail-outs currently in
the news, and taxes WILL go up. Taxes HAVE to go up. Any politition
that promises NOT to raise taxes is not telling the truth. Anyone who
believes a politition that promises that taxes will not go up is an idiot.
I am not particularly fond of taxes but the money has been spent and the invoices have to be paid. The alternative to not paying is bankruptcy,
by whatever term one wants to call it.
For a considerable amount of time this country has been living on the
"buy now, pay later" plan.
It is now time to pay. As someone who has always handled his finances in a
consevative manner, I don't particularly like being put in this position by
what has been a free-spending irresponsible society but that is reality
and I have to deal with it.
The sooner the rest of this society "deals with it" the better off we all
will be.
Capricous
program; it is an insurance program. By paying "premiums," one is entitled
(yes, entitled) to a never-ending stream of income regardless of how long
one lives. Note that I did not say never decreasing.
If one purchases auto insurance and never uses it (i.e., submits no claims)
one is not entitled to a return of premiums. Similarly, if one pays S.S.
one's whole life, and then croaks (2) days before retirement, tough.
And if one retires @ age 62 and then collects S.S for the next 50 years,
good for them (bad for others).
Those in favor of "private accounts" in leu of S.S. totally overlook the fact
that such private accounts are already available (IRA, 401K, 403B, etc.) and
that a properly-planned retirement would rely both on such accounts and also
with the hedge of an annuity-like insurance product; ie. S.S.
As to the issues facing S.S, the solution is simple: a combination of
increasing the tax rate, increasing the amount of income taxed, and
decreasing benefits. The sooner this is accomplsihed, the better the
outcome.
The realty is that the goverment does not have the money to pay for S.S.
or Medicare or the Iraq war or the plethora of bail-outs currently in
the news, and taxes WILL go up. Taxes HAVE to go up. Any politition
that promises NOT to raise taxes is not telling the truth. Anyone who
believes a politition that promises that taxes will not go up is an idiot.
I am not particularly fond of taxes but the money has been spent and the invoices have to be paid. The alternative to not paying is bankruptcy,
by whatever term one wants to call it.
For a considerable amount of time this country has been living on the
"buy now, pay later" plan.
It is now time to pay. As someone who has always handled his finances in a
consevative manner, I don't particularly like being put in this position by
what has been a free-spending irresponsible society but that is reality
and I have to deal with it.
The sooner the rest of this society "deals with it" the better off we all
will be.
Capricous
As to the issues facing S.S, the solution is simple: a combination of increasing the tax rate (across all incomes, so the entire country is able to make educated decisions as to how to handle the situation), and decreasing benefits. The sooner this is accomplished, the better the outcome.
You can’t increase the amount taxed unless you’re willing to up the benefits of those paying more into the system. That’s supposed to be one of the basic tenants of the system.
TooFarTampa
SoWal Insider
Outstanding posts you two, thanks. 
For all those who decry raising taxes, I also ask: What are the alternatives? As Capricious pointed out, the money has already been spent!
For all those who decry raising taxes, I also ask: What are the alternatives? As Capricious pointed out, the money has already been spent!
"..You can’t increase the amount taxed unless you’re willing to up the benefits of those paying more into the system. That’s supposed to be one of the basic tenants of the system. ..."
One of the "basic tenants" of our financial system is that
the taxpayers don't "bail-out" failing businesses.
Things change.
Capricious
"Nothing endures but change"
(Heraclitus)
One of the "basic tenants" of our financial system is that
the taxpayers don't "bail-out" failing businesses.
Things change.
Capricious
"Nothing endures but change"
(Heraclitus)
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Outstanding posts you two, thanks.
For all those who decry raising taxes, I also ask: What are the alternatives? As Capricious pointed out, the money has already been spent!
There are so many places we could carve off major chunks of the budget if we just had fiscally sound policies. Let's start by elliminating the debt - that chops off nearly 10%. (Think about that - 10% of our income taxes go to paying China for all the money we've borrowed.) We could also end the war, and cut back modestly on defense spending by taking a more "only defend the home country" position. We could reform medicare and medicaid like Clinton and the reps did for welfare (I know there are abuses there because I know people from around here who take advantage of it), and we could probably shave a good percentage off by simply reforing all the waste in Warshington.
And to think both Obama and McCain are saying "we might not be able to balance things in our first term." I find that disgusting.
Amen to that, they change for the worse!