Progressive Conservatives

[30ashopper]

I was reading another peice by Brooks, where he was talking about how Bush, the 'compassionate conservative' was the new breed of conservative that was needed. He claimed the Reagan ideology was out dated. He also claimed conservatism was dead because Bush had been rejected. I think this is where Brooks gets it wrong. Bush and Reagan had two completely different ideologies. I can understand why Republicans rejected Bush, he broke the mold - bigger goernment, bigger spending, lower taxes, preemptive foriegn policy (similar to Kennedy and Eisenhower) government intrusion based on social conservative values, etc.. Republicans are a little confused, they need to go into hybernation for a while and get back in touch with their roots.

In the mean time, liberal democrats will be duking it out with the blue dogs over all manner of things. I sense the liberal side will win out, and ultimately, conservatives will crawl out of their cave and start talking again about limited government, lower taxes, and fiscal responsibility. That's when they'll start winning elections again.

 

[Bob]

How about 1980 USA after the Carter administration?

1980....yeah, that was the last realistic chance we had of actually paying off our debt before ronny gave dod a credit card

 

[30ashopper]

1980....yeah, that was the last realistic chance we had of actually paying off our debt before ronny gave dod a credit card

Your democratic congress just pushed through a vote on a 700 billion bailout of failed Wall Street firms. How does that make you feel? I would think you and I both agree it wasn't right, but maybe for different reasons.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Small government, limited federal powers and spending, defensive non-interventionist foriegn policy, states rights, constructionist supreme court, pro free markets, pro open, free trade, limited regulation, limited intrusion,etc..

But you already knew that, why did you ask?

Well, maybe from an academic point of view...but, where does the religious stuff, the forcing ideas on everyone fit...I am talking about James Dobson et al. And the desire that Republicans apparently had, ala Karl Rove, of "making the country a one party country"-- what happened to America, the melting pot?

I truly do not understand that part of conservative...

I have no problem with people believing whatever they want to believe; or not believe at all...I have my own beliefs, but I do not try to force them onto anyone else...and certainly not in government or schools.

As I read through your list, I don't see much familiar from the past eight years.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Google 1930's Russia if you want to know the answer to your question.:angry:

Oh come on. That is just as goofy as when the libnuts call Republicans nazis.

 

[Bob]

Your democratic congress just pushed through a vote on a 700 billion bailout of failed Wall Street firms. How does that make you feel? I would think you and I both agree it wasn't right, but maybe for different reasons.

which party steals the covers while in bed with wall street? who called for the bailout?....what chief executive came out of media hibernation for his "let's scare the hell out of everbody" bailout speech? hint...the three were on shelly's avatar

 

[mossyhead]

Would that be the party of Barney Frank & Chris Dodd & "THE ONE" who took the most campaign contirbutions & put former Fanny Mae Execs as campaign advisors? This is NOT a one party problem Bob.

 

[idlewind]

Well, maybe from an academic point of view...but, where does the religious stuff, the forcing ideas on everyone fit...I am talking about James Dobson et al. And the desire that Republicans apparently had, ala Karl Rove, of "making the country a one party country"-- what happened to America, the melting pot?

I truly do not understand that part of conservative...

I have no problem with people believing whatever they want to believe; or not believe at all...I have my own beliefs, but I do not try to force them onto anyone else...and certainly not in government or schools.

As I read through your list, I don't see much familiar from the past eight years.

There is one big reason that you see little from the last eight years that resembles a conservative- because Bush is NO conservative. He is a RINO, a wolf in R clothing and the biggest disaster to conservatives since...well, his daddy. Bush has much more in common with Obama than he will ever have with the party of Reagan.

As to where "religion" enters in, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Under those principles the nation flourished. Abandoning those principles will lead to ruin.

 

[30ashopper]

Well, maybe from an academic point of view...but, where does the religious stuff, the forcing ideas on everyone fit...I am talking about James Dobson et al. And the desire that Republicans apparently had, ala Karl Rove, of "making the country a one party country"-- what happened to America, the melting pot?

I truly do not understand that part of conservative...

As to where "religion" enters in, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Under those principles the nation flourished. Abandoning those principles will lead to ruin.

Well, conservatives have always been close to their religion, and as Idlewind points out, they firmly believe this country was founded on its principals, and he/she is right, it was. I think in the recent past (think Reagan and Bush Sr.) religion was just a guiding set of principals, it wasn't so 'public'. Roe vs. Wade really triggered something in all of this I think. The fundamentalists became very active in the Republican party after Roe and pushed moral values to the forefront of the party. (These folks actually used to be part of your party, back when both parties held strong religious beliefs that intermingled with their politics.) It's an interesting problem for the Republican base. I would guess with the fading out of Bush and Rove and the social conservatives, this will get pushed back a bit into the background as it was with people like Goldwater and Reagan. We can't force religion upon the masses, and we can't force moral values either. That is a clear violation of core conservative principals. Something the party seems to have lost sight of.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being guided by those beliefs of course, and in certain cases like abortion, religion will always play a central role. I believe core issues like that though actually give the Republican party an advantage. The party will forever hold the South, and we have gained an advantage over Democrats with the Catholic vote. But by wearing religion on the sleeve and by being so public about it I think the party has turned off a lot of moderate religious types. The Catholic vote, again, is a perfect example - Catholicism and Fundamentalism don't mix well. (The war in Iraq didn't help there either, I believe the Democrats will take a slight majority of the Catholic vote this election.) But I think this is temporary as these policies are that of people like Bush and Rove, who are not true conservatives. Democrats actually help long term by taking newer stances that violate some core religious principals. But in this election we are seeing more of a back lash, a perfect storm if you will. Iraq, the economy, Bush's very public fundamentalist views, these all seem to be taking precedence over things like abortion, gay marriage and taxes. If the Republicans are re-born as old school Republicans - pushing the principals I mentioned previously while leaving very forward fundamentalist views by the way side, I think they'll do just fine.

 

[30ashopper]

which party steals the covers while in bed with wall street? who called for the bailout?....what chief executive came out of media hibernation for his "let's scare the hell out of everbody" bailout speech? hint...the three were on shelly's avatar

.. that doesn't change the fact that more Democrats voted for it than Republicans. If the dems hasd refules to push it, it never would have passed, and we'd be implementing something else far less costly. For that, Democrats must take most of the blame.