Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[Dreamer]

We need to get rid of the beach vendors in Grayton Beach. If owners of rental properties want to include beach service to their renters, so be it. If the chair & umbrella are not in use, they do not get set up to obstruct beachfront use for other beachgoers.

 

[Kurt]

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Let's talk about these other locations for a while...
Seaside;
Watercolor;
Watersound;
Alys Beach;
Rosemary Beach.

These are HUGE developments with LOTS of PRIVATE beach.

The bulk of the posts I see in this forum seem to attack individual owners - it's easier I guess. But where's the outrage regarding these corporations who control huge amounts of beach front property? I've read posts where people discussed boycotting Maries because they are a SBA member. Why not boycott all of Seaside? Why not boycott the ever popular Bud and Alleys and other restaurants who sit within the Seaside area? Why not boycott Fish Out of Water in Watercolor? Why not boycott Caliza and George’s in Alys Beach? Why not boycott Cowgirl Kitchen and CK Feed & Supply in Rosemary Beach? Why not boycott all the shops and restaurants in the other "private beach" locations?

For the many, that would just inconvenience their lifestyle. So the outrage is then simply muted as they sip their wine and watch the sunset from these restaurants.

Most of the businesses in these developments are individually owned by our friends and neighbors. Please come up with another idea if you want to use the beach in the town where they operate.

 

[wastinaway]

The unfortunate part about this issue is that it's being polarized. It's "us versus them" or "haves versus have-nots", locals versus tourists", etc. There's no way that a black and white view on an issue like this will ever reach a fair and reasonable solution for anyone.

So those who are lucky enough to own property, congratulations! And BlueMountainBeachVagrant brought up a very good point that should be discussed as well - the large portions of beach that are "private" on the east end of 30A. I don't agree with his boycott of local businesses as a form of protest, but there are miles of beach that are essentially inaccessible to locals like myself, because there are very few public accesses east of Deer Lake State Park.

It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf.

Here are the items that I've pulled out of this thread, along with a proposed solution that seems reasonable for all involved:

• Vendors and their inconsiderate and wasteful use of the beach.
  • Require that vendors deliver their chairs and products directly to their customer, not set them up early and be left all day. They do this with bikes, paddle boards, etc already - I don't know of any vendors (or customers for that matter) that allow a $1000 paddle board to be left on the beach for someone to pick up hours later. Fine vendors who set chairs up early, and customers who abandon them on the beach without getting them picked up.
• Inconsiderate use of the beach - littering, noise, pop-up tents, etc. One of the most annoying things to me is when one or multiple pop-up tents are set up on the beach, with music blaring out of it, several coolers, and unimaginable piles of gear. That type of noisy, disruptive crowd bothers me as a beachgoer, and I can't imagine how much it would annoy me if it was right outside my back door.
  • This is as simple as enacting a law defining what "customary use" is for Walton County. I would be happy to argue alongside property owners that bringing half of the contents of your house is not necessary to enjoy the beach. I spend entire days on the beach with my 3 kids, and we can fit everything we need for a full day at the beach on our Bob stroller and walk to the beach with it. And along with the legal definition is ENFORCEMENT. More patrols by cops and code enforcement folks who will actually stop and handle a situation then and there. So what if the people receiving the citation are offended and will not come back? Nobody ever mentions the 5 people that were annoyed or disgusted by their actions and didn't say anything, but resolved not to come back themselves.
• Exclusivity. I believe this is the biggest item for the developments BlueMountainBeachVagrant mentioned. The folks who stay at Rosemary Beach, Watersound, Seaside, etc want to prevent overcrowding and keep out the "riff raff". But at the same time, they still want the County (which is funded by taxes paid by ALL of us, not just their community) to empty their trash bins, maintain their beach flag system, enforce the laws on their beach, and even help keep those of us who are not part of "the club" off of their beaches.
  • I believe that each community should be required to have at least one access that is not locked and is available for public use. Rosemary Beach could use the gate near their green space near the Pearl, which already has public restrooms. WaterSound has the Shingle Lane access or the access at the Beach Club - both of which are accessible by County vehicles already for beach maintenance. The fact is, most of us would rarely go to these accesses, because parking is terrible. But it would be great to be able to go to these places once in a while for a change in scenery, or to have dinner in Rosemary or Alys Beach and walk on the beach afterward. After all, isn't that why we live/work/visit/stay here?

Are there any other issues that I'm not aware of? What are they? If we could come together and figure out the ROOT CAUSE of the problem - what the property owners are genuinely concerned about and how to help limit and/or solve those problems, maybe we could get back to being the beautiful, laid-back beach community that most of us fell in love with.

 

[jodiFL]

I keep reading about the beachfront property owners "customary use" ....what about MY "customary use" of being able to come to the beach with only a towel,sheet and cooler and not have to navigate around 30 umbrella/chair setups before I can USE the beach within 50yrds of the walkover I came ONTO the beach at? I have been "customarily" using Walton county beaches alot longer than most of the homes on it. I have NEVER used a beach service and was appalled that when my family came to the area for the first time in many years that they were accosted by a vendor within 5 minutes of walking onto the beach. They need to rein in the vendors and give back some of the customarily used space to those of us that just want to enjoy THE BEACH.

 

[John G]

"It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf."

Answer:

Because Sheriff Mike Adkinson refuses to do his job and enforce trespass on private property UNLESS you jump through his hoops and do this.

If he would have been enforcing laws from day one and not playing politics with everything, we probably wouldn't have this issue.

Same with Wedding Houses, had to have a huge law suit over that...

 

[Misty]

"It's been touched on in this thread many times but not specifically asked - what EXACTLY is the reasoning for all owners to post and enforce the Private Property signage? I am firmly in the "too poor to own beachfront property (yet)" column, and I've had many similar experiences as jkmason recently where I went for a walk on the beach and ended up mesmerized, upset, or at least distracted by all of the signage instead of enjoying the surf."

Answer:

Because Sheriff Mike Adkinson refuses to do his job and enforce trespass on private property UNLESS you jump through his hoops and do this.

If he would have been enforcing laws from day one and not playing politics with everything, we probably wouldn't have this issue.

Same with Wedding Houses, had to have a huge law suit over that...

John G....with all your law enforcement expertise and background could you please tell us when a local ordinance or law has ever superseded FEDERAL law? The FEDERAL law which states that beaches are public up to the HIGH TIDE mark?

Also recent Florida Supreme Court decisions have upheld the public's right to recreational use of dry-sand areas of the beach.

The constitution of Florida also recognizes that the beach is publicly owned up to the high-tide mark. In addition, Florida law requires the state to ensure "the public's right to reasonable access to beaches," and various court rulings have affirmed that principle.

 

[Misty]

And John G, since the constitution of Florida also recognizes that the beach is publicly owned up to the high-tide mark could you please explain to us what law it is that the Sheriff has refused to enforce?

 

[John G]

Well I'm definitely not an expert and not sure about being experienced, but I simply answered the question as to WHY all the signs are popping up.

Very simply put; we never had this problem before. A few years ago, after the big TDC push at attracting other tourists to the area, we started to see an increase in what I call "disrespectful tourists". These are the one's that let their children urinate and defecate in our dunes, the take glass bottles to the beach (and leave them), they don't clean up after-themselves or their pets and are simply just disrespectful to our area. It is a lower class of clientele.

The aforementioned type of tourist then attracted the attention of the homeowners along the beach. Many then started to call law enforcement about the activities of these folks. This also took place at many of the Resort Beaches.

So the question came up about who actually own's the area where this activity was taking place and who has the authority to enforce a trespass warning on it.

Thus, the issue of Trespassing on the Beach and the Standard Operation Procedure of the Walton County Sheriff's Office, under sheriff Adkinson.

Due to the recent (past couple of years) of increases in calls to WCSO about people (tourists and locals alike) trespassing on peoples property (I'm not talking about the mean high tide line or the wet sand) a SOP was created.

The signs, a survey and GPS coordinates and other things are all part of a requirement set forth by WCSO so that a property owner can call for service and actually get some result. It also depends on the luck of the draw as some deputies will be proactive while others don't do anything. Same with TDC Code Enforcement. I don't agree with it, but its what's in the SOP.

That's why the signs are going up all over.

I'm not going to get into the State vs. Federal nonsense. If you want to go that route, go ask Greg Anchors at the State Attorney's Office for his letter he sent to the sheriff outlining the high tide line and wet sand issue.

I believe that private property owners have the right to control the property they own. If that happens to be a piece of white sand in South Walton County, then so be it.

I also believe that the public has the right to freely traverse East and West and back again, while not disturbing or disrespecting the private property as they travel.

The sky is falling mentality of some people with the beach access is overkill.

 

[Misty]

Actually John G this entire fiasco can be laid directly at the feet of the BCC (not the Sheriff) who have abdicated their responsibilities not only to ALL the citizens of Walton County (AKA the taxpayers) but also the people who make up much of our local economy (AKA tourists) and have caved to developer greed.

 

[Misty]

I could actually understand this excuse

Very simply put; we never had this problem before. A few years ago, after the big TDC push at attracting other tourists to the area, we started to see an increase in what I call "disrespectful tourists". These are the one's that let their children urinate and defecate in our dunes, the take glass bottles to the beach (and leave them), they don't clean up after-themselves or their pets and are simply just disrespectful to our area. It is a lower class of clientele.

if this were PCB we were talking about but I do believe the Sheriff and his ZERO tolerance policies have been very effective in this area.

I don't care about SOP set forth by any Sheriff or law enforcement entity and in all likelihood, I would in all probability ignore it if it conflicted with State and Federal law which as an American Citizen I have every legal right to do.

Everyone on this board recognizes your disdain for the Sheriff. While I may not be a fan of his media exploitation I can appreciate the fact he does a damn fine job and even he recognizes he can't enforce any laws that don't exist and has to follow the Constitution of the State of Florida...failing that, he has to follow federal law.