Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[gailforce]

Innocent Question: I thought the public beaches were paid for by everyone's taxes. And, the private beaches were paid for by owners taxes. Like public schools, you pay and if you go private, you pay that too. ?

Are you suggesting that the private landowners in question are paying to maintain what they consider is their private beach? I'd dearly love to see some receipts for that....because the Federal government has ascertained that beaches are public up to the HIGH TIDE mark.

Are you suggesting that the private landowners in question are paying to maintain what they consider is their private beach? I'd dearly love to see some receipts for that....because the Federal government has ascertained that beaches are public up to the HIGH TIDE mark.

I am only asking a question. No other motivations.

 

[Misty]

Innocent Question: I thought the public beaches were paid for by everyone's taxes. And, the private beaches were paid for by owners taxes. Like public schools, you pay and if you go private, you pay that too. ?


I am only asking a question. No other motivations.

I didn't think you had any other motivation honestly but if those private property owners maintain their private beaches (not the County and not the FEDS) they should be able to prove that.

 

[Misty]

Care to elaborate on this comment as it relates to un-nourished private beach front property?

I think the comment speaks for itself. If the County or FEDS maintain it with taxpayer dollars it's not private property.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

There's one theme that seems to ring true on this thread.

Not many people seem to like the idea of beach vending on public beach except beach vendors who vend on public beach, of course.

Based on personal observation and by reading messages here on SoWal, the "quality" of a public beach visit would be greatly improved if beach vending on public beach simply went away. I believe this would be a very simple measure to implement if the BCC had the will. Of course, they won't have the will unless the public puts pressure on their commissioners. And it would help if the commissioner(s) didn't have any personal interest in that line of business else recuse themselves from a vote.

And this could be done on a beach by beach basis where there is limited room vs. high usage.

This is a very simple step in improving "the beach experience" in my humble opinion.

 

[steel1man]

What's ancient and customary is the battle between the "haves and the have nots". And I don't mean that in a mean spirited way. Until the County, TDC and local developers were overly successful in increasing and promoting the usage density in our area, there was not really an issue with the occasional "trespass" on private property beach front property. We all tried to get along - and did so for the most part without signs and ropes.

Most of us (I believe) who "bought" beach front property did so for the love of the laid back nature of our area - not for the conscious execution of keeping others off the beach.

But now, things are changing due to growth. Some say for the better and some say for the worse. I'm somewhere in between. I've heard it (and said it) a thousand times - "It's so much nicer here than in Destin and Panama City" and I sincerely believe it's because of the historical restraint placed upon growth in our area. But historical growth restraint is about to fly out the window.


So.....I offer this thought for your consideration:
After this recent beach workshop meeting, it is blatantly obvious that the majority of the population (and government officials) want the beach to be public regardless of the means or ramifications.

I propose that we immediately remove the 4 story building limit in exchange for deeding the private beach front property over to the county and allow high rises to be built like they have in Destin and Panama City Beach. After all, isn't this the direction we're heading? Shouldn't everyone in the world have the opportunity to visit our beaches once they become public? Wouldn't that be just peachy for business owners and the local struggling economy? Why not?...Soon we will have a brand new bridge feeding the frenzy. And shouldn't we expect the county's investment in roads, bridges and infrastructure to be recouped from more tourists' money?

The beach front owners could sell their property for more money and the public would get their beach. Everybody is a winner!

Actually, this already happened (more or less) at the the off-beach Redfish Village Condo Associstion (80 units) who owns a beachfront lot near the BMB Regional Access. The county allowed them to use their lot for private beach access against all existing county regulations ONLY BECAUSE Redfish Village allowed the public full easement rights to the this small beachfront lot (this was one of the ordinance exceptions in this matter). I challenge you to count how many "public" tourists are using their lot vs. the wall to wall of Redfish RED umbrellas that are set up in the morning before the public even wakes up.

As a side note, isn't this the same problem occurring at public accesses? In my opinion. the government allows beach vending on public beach where there shouldn't be any.


Back to customary use:
In any sense of the word, this would be a taking of private property without compensation.

I just heard someone say, "What the hell are you talking about? This is a taking based on customary use!" No, customary use is a very convenient way of saying, "You have it - we want it."

I guess to be fair, we should support the Native Indian's customary use rights to hunt and live anywhere they see fit. Shouldn't they should have full rights to all private and government property including everyone's backyard, parks, businesses, even the beach? Yea, I didn't think so. At least when the white man removed the Native Indian from THEIR land at GUNPOINT, the white man provided them with reservations (a very minimal compensation, by the way, for disrupting their way of life). But now they have casinos!

So far, I've heard nothing regarding compensation for what I consider to be a taking. As a matter of fact, unless the beach front owners just simply bend over and take it, it will COST them significant legal fees just to protect what is rightfully and legally theirs (based on the white man's records at the courthouse). And from first hand experience, most of the county commissioners do not give a damn about how much a private citizen has to spend to defend their legal rights. And if one can't afford to fight, one will lose against the county regardless of the issue.

Simply put, be careful what you wish for. The beach is a finite resource regardless of who "owns" it.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Sorry I put you to sleep. It must have been that embedded violin music used to emphasize my post. But assuming you're now awake, can you PLEASE respond to your comment below? I asked about it a couple of weeks in message #26 but never heard back from you. So are the 3 accesses in your neck of the woods private or public?

So glad I live in Old BMB, owners own ALL (3) access points( state of Florida approved not TDC)..they put those silly PVC vendor only signs between two of our accesses pointing toward each other over 800' of beach. They came back in a few days and removed ALL signage TDC/ code enforcement have NO sign authority own our neighborhood beaches. FYI we have a few lots left to build on just sayin.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

Care to elaborate on this comment as it relates to un-nourished private beach front property?

The TDC pays for the beaches to be cleaned. No other private property gets such treatment. In fact, it is against the law for county equipment to so much as spread a load of dirt on private property. So, if county crews cannot work on private property north of 98, why should they work on private property south of 98? There is no public benefit if the public cannot go on the property.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

The TDC pays for the beaches to be cleaned. No other private property gets such treatment. In fact, it is against the law for county equipment to so much as spread a load of dirt on private property. So, if county crews cannot work on private property north of 98, why should they work on private property south of 98? There is no public benefit if the public cannot go on the property.

Danny, I have followed many of your posts for the past few months and have learned quite a bit from you. I believe you are an upstanding person with a good moral compass. I know you are much more tuned in with county politics and procedures than I am - and probably most people who post here.

But...yes there's a but. When I asked you to elaborate on your comment, I couldn't possibly imagine how you could defend it.

Let's all understand one big thing regarding this topic. The TDC is the entity that "cleans" the beach as you call it. The only thing they do is occasionally empty the garbage on a regular basis. They do not do anything else on our beach. And truthfully I'm not content that they even come on our beach to do that.

And I've even seen the "public" use the garbage cans. BTW, we didn't even ask for or put the garbage receptacles in place that you mention. TDC took it upon themselves.

With that said, ALL funds that the TDC use for this garbage collection come from the bed tax. Not ONE SINGLE PENNY comes from the ordinary tax payer in Walton County.

With as much BED tax that beach front property owners pay into the Walton County TDC coffers, do you really think they are "unfairly" providing services to beach front property owners and therefore the public is entitled to use it?

I still like your posts but now I can officially say that I don't agree with all of them.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

Thank you for the kind word BMBV and it is OK that you do not agree with me all the time, the world would be pretty dull if there was no dissent and discussion. Let me be clear, I have no problem with bed taxes being used to clean and maintain the beaches. But those dollars are tax dollars, no matter who the payer of the tax is. Those funds are being entrusted to the government to use effectively and efficiently. Using tax funds to maintain property that has no public use or function is not effective or efficient. If there is no public function then the tax should be discontinued or the funds used elsewhere like purchasing beachfront that the public can use and enjoy.

 

[Misty]

With that said, ALL funds that the TDC use for this garbage collection come from the bed tax. Not ONE SINGLE PENNY comes from the ordinary tax payer in Walton County.

Really now? That's a pretty broad claim!

Are you suggesting that taxpayers in WC don't pay a penny in bed tax? I friends who vacationed down there just this past weekend (who are from here, local business owners and taxpayers) that had to pay the bed tax just as any tourist has to do. Maybe I should suggest to them that they tell the proprietors that they shouldn't have to pay the bed tax because they live work and pay taxes in Walton County. Wanna bet that would go over like a turd in a punch bowl?