Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[Jimmy T]

IMO, the TDC doesn't need to spend any more money on pamphlets in Southern Living. Walton county is a really amazing place and we have enough people who know about it to continue to have good tourist revenue. But the experience been on a decline for a while now. How about spending some money to keep it nice? How about spending some money to make it better?

I try to be a good steward to our community and our environment. You wouldn't believe how many bags of garbage my family and I have picked up over the years. But we need some help. We need some leadership. We need some more enforcement so the few bad apples don't ruin it for all of us.

Vending on the public beaches makes it hard on the locals. I realize we're not responsible for the kind of revenue that tourists are, but we all live here and expect some representation from our government. Vendors are a minority of the locals. The rest of us just want to go to the beach after 7 am and have a place to hang out and enjoy the day. Vending has gotten out of control at public areas and we need some changes that favor the locals. Frankly, I would be happy if vending was banned on public beaches altogether.

I envy the gulf front property owners. And I sort of understand the no trespassing signs, but not down to the water line. I don't know what the solution is here, but I would like to be able to walk along the gulf from Grayton to BMB without being harassed. I'd also like to be able to sit and enjoy the gulf near the water away from private structures, quietly and respectfully anywhere I want. Is this too much to ask from our gulf front owners?

 

[Bob Wells]

Danny, I have followed many of your posts for the past few months and have learned quite a bit from you. I believe you are an upstanding person with a good moral compass. I know you are much more tuned in with county politics and procedures than I am - and probably most people who post here.

But...yes there's a but. When I asked you to elaborate on your comment, I couldn't possibly imagine how you could defend it.

Let's all understand one big thing regarding this topic. The TDC is the entity that "cleans" the beach as you call it. The only thing they do is occasionally empty the garbage on a regular basis. They do not do anything else on our beach. And truthfully I'm not content that they even come on our beach to do that.

And I've even seen the "public" use the garbage cans. BTW, we didn't even ask for or put the garbage receptacles in place that you mention. TDC took it upon themselves.

With that said, ALL funds that the TDC use for this garbage collection come from the bed tax. Not ONE SINGLE PENNY comes from the ordinary tax payer in Walton County.

With as much BED tax that beach front property owners pay into the Walton County TDC coffers, do you really think they are "unfairly" providing services to beach front property owners and therefore the public is entitled to use it?

I still like your posts but now I can officially say that I don't agree with all of them.

Do you rent your home for a short term. Without renting your property and remitting the tax to the TDC I am not sure you pay the tax. I have lived and owned property for approximately 15 years and have never had to pay the TDC tax.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

The vending problem and the access problem go hand in hand. The TDC needs to divert resources to improving infrastructure and amenities along the beaches and purchase more beachfront to alleviate the pressure on the private owners. There is not a magic wand solution but there are several smaller things that can be done to improve the situation and combined will make everyone happier. Vending should be by franchise at the regional accesses and the items should be delivered from kiosks north of the dunes. Then only those items actually rented will be on the beach. The private owners should have control over vending on their property.

 

[jodiFL]

A thought and a question for the group...

Question: Where is the "high water mark" on our beaches? Is it a fixed line or does it change with erosion/addition of the beach itself? From what I have read this seems to be surrounded by controversy.

Thought: If the high water mark is "owned by the public" and assuming there is enough dry sand included within the high water mark, could this designation be used to create an ordinance to preclude commercial businesses (aka beach chair vendors) from setting up within the high water mark zone? This would allow the public to set up closer to the water and hopefully reduce the beach hogging empty beach set up problem we have. It would also ad some clarity to the public and beach property owners around allowable use.

According to Florida Statutes the Mean High Water Line (MHWL) can only be determined by a current topographical survey done by a registered surveyor. It varies by year because it is based on a 17 year average. Most topo surveys are only valid for a year. They are very costly and I am sure that most beachfront property owners only get the one they are required to have at the beginning of construction. But in order for them to say one is trespassing, they need to prove that they ACTUALLY own the sand in question.

 

[John G]

According to Florida Statutes the Mean High Water Line (MHWL) can only be determined by a current topographical survey done by a registered surveyor. It varies by year because it is based on a 17 year average. Most topo surveys are only valid for a year. They are very costly and I am sure that most beachfront property owners only get the one they are required to have at the beginning of construction. But in order for them to say one is trespassing, they need to prove that they ACTUALLY own the sand in question.

Yes, this is correct and it is also part of what I'm trying to get folks eyes to see. A survey is Part of the WCSO SOP and must be included in the packet you give to them. That, along with clear, easy to read signs are also part of the requirement for a beach front property owner to receive services as it relates to Trespassing on their property.

I'm sure most owners don't want to jump through all the hoops and spend the $2000+ for the nice little packet.

Before everyone dismisses the sheriff's culpability in why signs are popping up, do a little research.

 

[jkmason]

Does anyone know if the wcso sop addresses the mean high tide water line and the right of the public to transit and set up on the beach below that line?

My wife and I were booted off the beach at Sanctuary by the Sea. We were in our chairs about 10' from wet sand and probably 50-100' seaward from the mean high tide water line.

Their signage has become more aggressive over the last couple of years. Here is one of their signs.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Really now? That's a pretty broad claim!

Are you suggesting that taxpayers in WC don't pay a penny in bed tax? I friends who vacationed down there just this past weekend (who are from here, local business owners and taxpayers) that had to pay the bed tax just as any tourist has to do. Maybe I should suggest to them that they tell the proprietors that they shouldn't have to pay the bed tax because they live work and pay taxes in Walton County. Wanna bet that would go over like a turd in a punch bowl?

SERIOUSLY?

We should give up our property because your friends vacation here (who are from here from what you've said) and have to pay bed tax? That makes no sense whatsoever. The logic in your post is a real discredit to the other arguments presented here.

 

[Misty]

SERIOUSLY?

We should give up our property because your friends vacation here (who are from here from what you've said) and have to pay bed tax? That makes no sense whatsoever. The logic in your post is a real discredit to the other arguments presented here.

According to current law and the Constitution of the State of Florida the land your claiming is private belongs to the very people you're trying to keep out.

IMO the people posting those signs are nothing more than squatters...rich, self entitled, snobbish, squatters at that.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Thank you for the kind word BMBV and it is OK that you do not agree with me all the time, the world would be pretty dull if there was no dissent and discussion. Let me be clear, I have no problem with bed taxes being used to clean and maintain the beaches. But those dollars are tax dollars, no matter who the payer of the tax is. Those funds are being entrusted to the government to use effectively and efficiently. Using tax funds to maintain property that has no public use or function is not effective or efficient. If there is no public function then the tax should be discontinued or the funds used elsewhere like purchasing beachfront that the public can use and enjoy.

Danny, I appreciate your feedback.

If I could, I would drastically cut back the TDC's functions. This area does not need more promotion as most of us know.

Now, you keep mentioning beach maintenance. Do you REALLY qualify the emptying of garbage cans as beach maintenance? That's a little disingenuous.

Keep in mind that most of the money paid into TDC comes from beach front rental properties:
Seaside,
Watercolor,
Watersound,
Rosemary Beach,
Alys Beach,
One Seagrove Place,
Adagio,
Bella Vita,
and many, many more beachfront complexes and individual homes.

So, if these are the properties that contribute tremendously to the TDC funds, don't you think the emptying of garbage cans is the least these properties should get for the money they directly generate - especially considering the TDC took it upon themselves to provide this service in the first place? Besides no other "garbage collection" vehicles are allowed on the beach.

Let's keep the discussions on the up and up.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Yes, this is correct and it is also part of what I'm trying to get folks eyes to see. A survey is Part of the WCSO SOP and must be included in the packet you give to them. That, along with clear, easy to read signs are also part of the requirement for a beach front property owner to receive services as it relates to Trespassing on their property.

I'm sure most owners don't want to jump through all the hoops and spend the $2000+ for the nice little packet.

Before everyone dismisses the sheriff's culpability in why signs are popping up, do a little research.

Why is it the upland property owner has to prove their southern boundary?

Why doesn't the county / state simply prove their northern boundary? After all, if the public is being unfairly discriminated against (wet sand vs. dry sand and all), wouldn't the use of TDC funds be wise for this purpose?

What about the millions that were paid for the beach nourishment engineering and the associated surveys? Who has access to those surveys? Didn't those surveys define the MHWL? The erosion control line (ECL) was supposed to be established from that line.

It truly saddens me when fellow neighbors bring up the burden of proof argument.