Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[Danny Glidewell]

BMBvagrant, the Creeks (The local branch was called Euchee) have been gone for quite awhile so their claim may be a little hard to prove. But since I am part Creek on my Father's side, I will be glad to take all the beachfront for my own if you like. (Just kidding)

 

[jodiFL]

BMBV....another example of my customary use of our beaches......imagine a day when you just wanted to be alone and quiet on the beach at sunset...no crowds or kids yelling but you get to a walkover and find people crowded around that access. Your only option is to walk to the east or west to be away from said people/kids...but now you run into a sign that says "Private Property".....what am I to do now? I am a local..I am not going to pee in the dunes or stare into your windows. I am not there to try and take your property. I just want some quiet time with the sound of the waves and not be harrassed by some rent a cop..

 

[localboy10]

BMBV....another example of my customary use of our beaches......imagine a day when you just wanted to be alone and quiet on the beach at sunset...no crowds or kids yelling but you get to a walkover and find people crowded around that access. Your only option is to walk to the east or west to be away from said people/kids...but now you run into a sign that says "Private Property".....what am I to do now? I am a local..I am not going to pee in the dunes or stare into your windows. I am not there to try and take your property. I just want some quiet time with the sound of the waves and not be harrassed by some rent a cop..

No one, not even the "rent a cop" can stop you from going east or west to get away from the crowd. What I believe a lot of the people on this forum is not comprehending is that you can walk east or west all you want. And you can go find that quiet place to get away from the crowd. The private signs only stop you from "camping" 10 feet from the water line. Anything below that, have at it.

 

[jodiFL]

No one, not even the "rent a cop" can stop you from going east or west to get away from the crowd. What I believe a lot of the people on this forum is not comprehending is that you can walk east or west all you want. And you can go find that quiet place to get away from the crowd. The private signs only stop you from "camping" 10 feet from the water line. Anything below that, have at it.

But what if I dont want to just WALK up and down the beach?? Maybe I just want to sit down in sand that doesnt get my butt wet and have a cocktail and watch the sunset? I am NOT trying to interfere with with someones "property rights". I am aware they paid a pretty penny for that view. What has got me riled up is the fact that for about the last 15-20 years realtors and developers have been pushing this "PRIVATE BEACH" thing and not really informing people that ALL Florida beaches are Public seaward of the MHWL...not the CCL,not what a "boundary" survey shows. The boundaries of a coastal property are not like the ones in Atlanta or Birmingham or where ever.....that can be determined by X amount of feet from the middle of the road...but some gulf front owners are taking these people at their word and think they own to infinity and somewhere 2 miles out in the gulf because that boundary survey doesnt show a definitive seaward line.As I have said before.. the MHWL is an imaginary line in the sand that can only be determined by a topographical survey and it changes every year. What you owned last year might not be what you own this year. Gulf front owners might have lost 10 feet this year..they might gain 15 next year..I am not a registered surveyor and I need documentation from someone who IS..

 

[jodiFL]

But what if I dont want to just WALK up and down the beach?? Maybe I just want to sit down in sand that doesnt get my butt wet and have a cocktail and watch the sunset? I am NOT trying to interfere with with someones "property rights". I am aware they paid a pretty penny for that view. What has got me riled up is the fact that for about the last 15-20 years realtors and developers have been pushing this "PRIVATE BEACH" thing and not really informing people that ALL Florida beaches are Public seaward of the MHWL...not the CCL,not what a "boundary" survey shows. The boundaries of a coastal property are not like the ones in Atlanta or Birmingham or where ever.....that can be determined by X amount of feet from the middle of the road...but some gulf front owners are taking these people at their word and think they own to infinity and somewhere 2 miles out in the gulf because that boundary survey doesnt show a definitive seaward line.As I have said before.. the MHWL is an imaginary line in the sand that can only be determined by a topographical survey and it changes every year. What you owned last year might not be what you own this year. Gulf front owners might have lost 10 feet this year..they might gain 15 next year..I am not a registered surveyor and I need documentation from someone who IS..

And the people that bought here need to remember WHY they bought here.....SOWAL has a very unique atmosphere, we are laid back and most really dont want confrontation. I can remember when the folks with the beach front house would yell and wave at ANYONE on the beach and offer them a drink or invite them to the cookout they were having...I also remember teaching my kids that they didnt go running up in the dunes and they NEVER went on someones walkover/stairs...

 

[jkmason]

Interesting three part article about the Beach Highlands neighborhood quiet title controversy.

"The suit revolved around the plat of Beach Highlands, recorded in 1960. (Plat Book 3, Page 47). It showed an area south of the gulf front lots that was simply designated as “beach.” At the time, the entire property was owned by the Beach Highlands Corporation. The dedication, which was approved by the county commission “for record,” read as follows:

The undesigned [sic] corporation is duly organized under the laws of the State of Florida and the owners of the real-estate included in this plat, do hereby authorize the same to be recorded in the public records of Walton County, Florida and do hereby dedicate for public use all streets, alleys, roads and public places as shown on said plat.

(emphasis added).

The property owners whose lots abut the beach sued the Beach Highlands Corporation (which was dissolved in 1967) to establish that they own the beach to the mean high water. Because the Beach Highlands Corporation is long dissolved, and because none of the members of the last known board of directors is still living, the court appointed an attorney ad litem to represent the corporation. That attorney simply admitted the allegations of the complaint, resulting in the court granting summary judgment to the beach front owners. In essence, the suit was unopposed."

Who Owns the Beach? Part 1

 

[MRBS]

But what if I dont want to just WALK up and down the beach?? Maybe I just want to sit down in sand that doesnt get my butt wet and have a cocktail and watch the sunset? I am NOT trying to interfere with with someones "property rights". I am aware they paid a pretty penny for that view. What has got me riled up is the fact that for about the last 15-20 years realtors and developers have been pushing this "PRIVATE BEACH" thing and not really informing people that ALL Florida beaches are Public seaward of the MHWL...not the CCL,not what a "boundary" survey shows. The boundaries of a coastal property are not like the ones in Atlanta or Birmingham or where ever.....that can be determined by X amount of feet from the middle of the road...but some gulf front owners are taking these people at their word and think they own to infinity and somewhere 2 miles out in the gulf because that boundary survey doesnt show a definitive seaward line.As I have said before.. the MHWL is an imaginary line in the sand that can only be determined by a topographical survey and it changes every year. What you owned last year might not be what you own this year. Gulf front owners might have lost 10 feet this year..they might gain 15 next year..I am not a registered surveyor and I need documentation from someone who IS..

this

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Interesting three part article about the Beach Highlands neighborhood quiet title controversy.

"The suit revolved around the plat of Beach Highlands, recorded in 1960. (Plat Book 3, Page 47). It showed an area south of the gulf front lots that was simply designated as “beach.” At the time, the entire property was owned by the Beach Highlands Corporation. The dedication, which was approved by the county commission “for record,” read as follows:

The undesigned [sic] corporation is duly organized under the laws of the State of Florida and the owners of the real-estate included in this plat, do hereby authorize the same to be recorded in the public records of Walton County, Florida and do hereby dedicate for public use all streets, alleys, roads and public places as shown on said plat.

(emphasis added).

The property owners whose lots abut the beach sued the Beach Highlands Corporation (which was dissolved in 1967) to establish that they own the beach to the mean high water. Because the Beach Highlands Corporation is long dissolved, and because none of the members of the last known board of directors is still living, the court appointed an attorney ad litem to represent the corporation. That attorney simply admitted the allegations of the complaint, resulting in the court granting summary judgment to the beach front owners. In essence, the suit was unopposed."

Who Owns the Beach? Part 1

jkmason, that was an interesting read. I never understood what the "quiet title" stuff was all about at Beach Highlands - now I think I do. And that situation is different from most private beach front properties whose titles were clearly deeded to the MHWL from the very beginning.

An excerpt from the article that I found interesting:

......Thus, absent a specific lawsuit establishing the extent and nature of customary use, the public is relegated back to the area below the mean high water line.

There are other approaches that Florida and other state courts have considered in public access cases, but none of them have garnered general support. The states that have ensured public access to beaches have generally done so through state-wide legislation. Approaching the determination on a parcel-by-parcel, lawsuit-by-lawsuit basis is simply unworkable in the long run. Currently there is no precedent in Florida for a local government – city or county – to make a “customary use” determination for its jurisdiction.

My observations:

It may be "simply unworkable in the long run", but it certainly appears that won't stop Walton County from trying to pursue this fiasco on a "lawsuit-by-lawsuit" basis. Walton County is now desperate due to a lack of Proper Planning, Period.

The county has been caught with their pants down on this issue now that the nourishment project is dead. And they must now do something (or show that they are trying) so they (elected officials) can stay "politically solvent".

To me, it's as if a political legal lynch mob is forming against private beach front property owners - highly encouraged by the BCC's vast majority of very vocal non-gulf front owning constituents. Plus they are backed up by millions of taxpayer dollars at their full legal disposal - very hard to fight back unless one has the financial resources.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

BMBV....another example of my customary use of our beaches......imagine a day when you just wanted to be alone and quiet on the beach at sunset...no crowds or kids yelling but you get to a walkover and find people crowded around that access. Your only option is to walk to the east or west to be away from said people/kids...but now you run into a sign that says "Private Property".....what am I to do now? I am a local..I am not going to pee in the dunes or stare into your windows. I am not there to try and take your property. I just want some quiet time with the sound of the waves and not be harrassed by some rent a cop..

I am sorry that you sometimes can't find your peace and solitude when you visit the beach. It certainly is not like it was 5 years ago.

And that's what owners of gulf front properties near public accesses are having to endure.

Because of the tremendous, so-called growth, the public is now spilling on to our beach for some of the reasons you describe. And they are now interfering with our owners and guests from peacefully enjoying our own beach as we used to do for so many years.

 

[John G]

I am sorry that you sometimes can't find your peace and solitude when you visit the beach. It certainly is not like it was 5 years ago.

And that's what owners of gulf front properties near public accesses are having to endure.

Because of the tremendous, so-called growth, the public is now spilling on to our beach for some of the reasons you describe. And they are now interfering with our owners and guests from peacefully enjoying our own beach as we used to do for so many years.

Exactly, 100% correct.

We can thank Dawn and the TDC for all the increase.

It's supply and demand. Demand is up, supply is down. In economics, that's about the time for a price increase.

You solve this issue by;

Owners to increase rental rates, year round. Price out the riff raff.

County to crack down, if not completely remove, vendors from County beaches.

Hold Sheriff Mike accountable for not enforcing trespass and for requiring people to have signs, ropes, etc. It's his SOP...

Have to TDC immediately cease funding marketing and look for ways to solve problems, not create them.

Enforcement the current rules and regulations we have for dogs on beach, glass on beach, parking, etc.

Not that hard.