Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]
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In 2005-2006 after the hurricanes, it was the county that was scraping the beaches at the shoreline adding the sand to the base of the dunes to reduce more erosion and to protect the dunes from more damage. I am sure these property owners did not say one thing about them trespassing, and to get off of their property at that time, and will not stop them when the next storm hits.
An incendiary situation, wow, what is funny is you are the one who has taken it that way. First, I very seldom go to the beach and when I do it is for work. Secondly, I think there is a customary use by people and it should be continued. Third, just because I disagree with you doesn't make me an instigator. Now saying that, we will just have to agree to disagree.
I am like Bob Wells, I seldom go to the beach except on business. But I did go a lot when I was younger and want my children and grandchildren to continue to have the privilege if they desire to go. This week my son and I have traveled together a great deal for work and have discussed this issue at length. He, like me, is pretty conservative and a believer in property rights. So this issue is very conflicting to us. I understand the position of the property owners but I also understand the great harm to our county that comes from that position. The general public also has rights that have been customary for hundreds of years and these rights cannot be ignored either. These rights certainly include access and the right to walk and sit on the sand. The overriding need right now is to determine what the law will be and stick to it so that everyone is clear and policy can be set to implement that law. This uncertainty is the absolute worst position we can be in.
The recent NW FL Daily article on the beach issues in sowal, by Tom M., is quite good.
What I found interesting is that it basically mirors the issues I've (and others), raised...Vendors and Enforcement are two main points.
I also enjoyed reading Sheriff Mike's comments in the last part of that article. He now places blame for his non-enforcement on the BCC... Funny how he's quick to place blame and makes NO MENTION of "his" SOP that only fuelled this fire recently.
I've yet to see anyone go to the beach, access it via a bona fide public access and have any issues.
The issues start when someone wanders onto someone else's Private Property and sets up camp.
No one is being prevented from East to West movement or being told you can't be in the water or on wet sand. There is a ton of misinformation being spread by the panic merchants.
This is all going to cost the County Millions...and Million$, with the same result as the push for renourishment = failure.
What I found interesting is that it basically mirors the issues I've (and others), raised...Vendors and Enforcement are two main points.
I also enjoyed reading Sheriff Mike's comments in the last part of that article. He now places blame for his non-enforcement on the BCC... Funny how he's quick to place blame and makes NO MENTION of "his" SOP that only fuelled this fire recently.
I've yet to see anyone go to the beach, access it via a bona fide public access and have any issues.
The issues start when someone wanders onto someone else's Private Property and sets up camp.
No one is being prevented from East to West movement or being told you can't be in the water or on wet sand. There is a ton of misinformation being spread by the panic merchants.
This is all going to cost the County Millions...and Million$, with the same result as the push for renourishment = failure.
Walton County Board of County Commissioners meeting 4 p.m. on April 12 at South Walton Annex.
On the regular meeting agenda is a request to retain attorney David Theriaque for research on historical beach use data and to develop or assist with mechanisms to improve public access and use of Walton County beaches.
On the regular meeting agenda is a request to retain attorney David Theriaque for research on historical beach use data and to develop or assist with mechanisms to improve public access and use of Walton County beaches.
Ok.
No "re-nourishment" was done on some of the beaches BY THE GOVERNMENT (that I know of) somewhere after Ivan or Dennis.
And adding sand to shore up the dunes to prevent a home from falling in is definitely not considered taxpayer funded "re-nourishment".
I understand where you are trying to come from, but sorry, it doesn't hold sand. And you don't win beach front private property with that statement, this time.
Was that non-hostile enough?
And you keep saying "that I know of" which leads me to belive that you aren't sure either.Ok.
No "re-nourishment" was done on some of the beaches BY THE GOVERNMENT (that I know of) somewhere after Ivan or Dennis.
And adding sand to shore up the dunes to prevent a home from falling in is definitely not considered taxpayer funded "re-nourishment".
I understand where you are trying to come from, but sorry, it doesn't hold sand. And you don't win beach front private property with that statement, this time.
Was that non-hostile enough?
Vagrant: I later qualified my statement that what I remembered as "re-nourishment" was actually "sand-scraping", by the government, and that it might take lawyers to determine whether "sand scraping", which, in fact, rebuilds a dune, is considered "re-nourishment". There's no doubt in my mind that the scraping was a government project, paid for by tax-payers money.
Bob, I never suggested you were an instigator. Sorry if it came off as such.
Misinformation presented during an obviously emotional issue (for some) only fans the flame. There are too many who just simply feel entitled to another person's property and will use ANYTHING to substantiate their claim and make themselves feel better. Things like garbage pick-up, "fanthom" dredges, beach scraping, insurance, driving from Grayton to Destin on the beach etc. are brought up as so called evidence to support many's positions. Legally (tough word for some - not you BTW), none of these ideas are valid to convert private property to public. Yet they are constantly argued by the uninformed. You see, I used the word "uninformed", not #%$## people....hostility is waning.
I never would have thought a Bernie Sanders would have so much traction in this great country of ours. Perhaps the Greatest Generation is a fading memory to be replaced by socialism based on some of the above arguments. But I digress...
The single most honest (and possibly valid) thing I've heard in opposition to private property rights is this customary use argument. And if you re-read this thread as I just did, you'll see that I have stated this as much on a couple of different occasions.
And, from Mark Davis, the Walton County Attorney:
“We may discover that some beaches have been customarily used … and others have not,” Davis said. “That is entirely within the realm of possibility.” (see article dated 4/9/16)
So Bob, I hope you can understand my passion for attempting to protect what I "legally own" and worked (and still working) very hard to own, maintain and enjoy.
And I will try to understand the concept of Customary Use.
I still think the Creek Indians own all of Walton County based on Customary Use.