Public vs Private Beach

[DuneLaker]

One quick note as far as nourished beaches in Florida, you would be hard pressed to find many sandy beach areas in Florida that are not a state park, or federal land that has not been restored or is in some phase of planning for restoration.[/quote]

Please clarify that statement for me. I thought the state parks in our area - South Walton - had prevailed in keeping any unnatural restoration from intruding on their pristine condition. Observing them before and after the past years storms, due to their lack of buildings on or near the dunes, they seemed to have faired quite well. We are fortunate to have so many of our beaches as parks that are open to the public and not blighted with seawalls etc.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Actually in this case Walton County is only one party to the lawsuit and is actually the more minor party. The state of Florida is the more major party because the appeals court ruling invalidated a state statute. So whether or not Walton Cty wanted to continue the state would still have to defend their state statute. As for public funds, from a legal standpoint that is irrelevant, the material issue is that the state statute requires an ECL line and that ECL line is required no matter who pays.

One quick note as far as nourished beaches in Florida, you would be hard pressed to find many sandy beach areas in Florida that are not a state park, or federal land that has not been restored or is in some phase of planning for restoration.

Thanks for the insight! Just curious, is the state currently contributing funds to the SOB vs Walton County case?

I think I understand what you're saying in your 2nd paragraph...that unless it is a state or federal park, most beaches are restored or planned to be restored (for the benefit of DuneLaker).

Do you think the addition of the seawalls affects the criteria for "critically eroded"?

 

[BeachSiO2]

One quick note as far as nourished beaches in Florida, you would be hard pressed to find many sandy beach areas in Florida that are not a state park, or federal land that has not been restored or is in some phase of planning for restoration.

Please clarify that statement for me. I thought the state parks in our area - South Walton - had prevailed in keeping any unnatural restoration from intruding on their pristine condition. Observing them before and after the past years storms, due to their lack of buildings on or near the dunes, they seemed to have faired quite well. We are fortunate to have so many of our beaches as parks that are open to the public and not blighted with seawalls etc.

I meant those areas are the ones that have not or are not in planning for restoration, but other areas have. I see the confusion in what I wrote.

 

[BeachSiO2]

Thanks for the insight! Just curious, is the state currently contributing funds to the SOB vs Walton County case?

I think I understand what you're saying in your 2nd paragraph...that unless it is a state or federal park, most beaches are restored or planned to be restored (for the benefit of DuneLaker).

Do you think the addition of the seawalls affects the criteria for "critically eroded"?

To consolidate some info, I thought it might help to put out some links I found.

The state is a party to the lawsuit on Walton County's side. They used the solicitor general as their advocate at the Supreme Court Hearing. He is second only behind the Attorney General for the state as far as legislative counsel goes. They didn't use the FDEP Department attorney. Also, the Governor (Crist) gave permission to the Florida Department of Community Affairs Secretary, Tom Pelham to advocate on behalf of Walton County. So the state has definitely "invested" in the case. Here is the link to the Supreme Court case.
http://tinyurl.com/3c4jwh

Here is the report that defines "critically eroded" and I really don't have a good answer about seawalls. http://tinyurl.com/2vch5k

Also of note to some is the new public access bill in Fl. legislature this session. It's HB 1523 by Sasso and has a Senate companion.
http://tinyurl.com/2w4c4y

 

[Smiling JOe]

I meant those areas are the ones that have not or are not in planning for restoration, but other areas have. I see the confusion in what I wrote.

Do you think these State Parks' beaches, which haven't been manipulated by man, are in better condition than the other beaches which are crying out for restoration? If so, doesn't that give us a strong message of the importance of not building on the dune systems, and the need to let mother nature do her thing?

 

[BeachSiO2]

Do you think these State Parks' beaches, which haven't been manipulated by man, are in better condition than the other beaches which are crying out for restoration? If so, doesn't that give us a strong message of the importance of not building on the dune systems, and the need to let mother nature do her thing?

Only answering the bold part . Based on the collected data in Walton County, the answer is no. Some of the largest erosion losses are in Topsail Hill and Grayton Beach, especially volumetric losses. In some cases, huge frontal dunes have been eroded to a small percentage of their previous size. You really see this when you are looking for one of the FDEP monuments that used to be on the backside of a dune in a state park, and it's been washed out. Prior to the 2004/05 hurricane seasons the largest annual erosion losses were in Topsail Hill Preserve. The problem occurs when upland structures interact with the waves, water and beach, which is called "encroachment." If there is no interaction, then the physics aren't there to say upland houses, roads, trees, etc. have an effect. It's all about "siting." Unless of course you are talking about people excavating dunes and other stuff...

 

[Smiling JOe]

So are you suggesting that Tops'l and Grayton Beach SP beaches also are in need of restoration?

 

[BeachSiO2]

So are you suggesting that Tops'l and Grayton Beach SP beaches also are in need of restoration?

Nope :nono1:. I am suggesting that "health" from a scientific standpoint doesn't care if a beach is "developed" or "undeveloped." Only the people and critters that use it. So, you would best check with the Choctawhatchee Beach Mouse on the state parks they are the ones that are losing their "houses" (dunes).

Also, I would say there are some non-state park areas that don't need restoration...

 

[Smiling JOe]

That's interesting since you also state that most other beach is undergoing, or being planned for some type of restoration.

 

[scooterbug44]

I spent a couple hours on the beach sunday (I've given up being productive after brunch). Saw maybe 10 people.

No condos = no crowds! ;-)