Public vs Private Beach

[Busta Hustle]

Right on in every way...now if we can just have those owners do all this with their "private" funds.

On 1 other note...i can't wait for the new fema flood maps. Can you speak a little bit about cobra zones and the residential area behind the topsail park beach and dune systems?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

BH, I'll say one thing for you...you're consistent.

After I blow your adversarial quote out of the water...

"They didn't get FEMA money to replace sand in front of their homes to make the beach just as wide as it was before Katrina - a beach that they can then call private and throw people off of. "

you make no comment in return. Yet you still manage to generate even another distractive statement regarding, of all things, crapper tanks. And no, we're on sewer.

Most everyone lost their walkovers during the hurricanes. What does that have to do with anything on this thread? In the past, I have suggested a "recovery" fee be built into every walkover permit. But I don't expect you to know that.

BustaHustle, beach nourishment is the CHEAPEST way to resolve the private/public beach problem. You just can't see that. Although I am not in favor of an automatic beach nourishment policy, I can see where everyone COULD benefit from the program where beach nourishment is absolutely NEEDED.

I think I've narrowed your concerns to 2 things:
1. You don't like that all beaches are not public.
2. You don't want the government helping private property owners in any way.

Is that a fair assessment of your position? If so, what's your priority?

 

[Smiling JOe]

homes in BMB, between 83 and Big Redfish, have been rebuilt, and they are south of the CCCL, according to the maps. IMO, some should have never been allowed to rebuild in place after the storms washed away much of the sand under the homes.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I am going to try and hit as many scientific pts as I can so let me know if I miss something. BMBV I hope you don't mind if I tangent the thread just a bit more. .....

That was no more tangential than anything else here. I too have learned quite a bit from your posts. Hopefully I've returned the favor here and there. ;-)

 

[BeachSiO2]

Right on in every way...now if we can just have those owners do all this with their "private" funds.

On 1 other note... I can't wait for the new fema flood maps. Can you speak a little bit about cobra zones and the residential area behind the topsail park beach and dune systems?

Another tangent BMBV, but hopefully useful..

Here's a little of what I know. First everyone in the Country can purchase federal flood insurance and it is not limited to ones who live in "flood zones." In the United States, the majority of policy owners live along inland areas and not along the coast. The coastal owners are less than 5% of the insurance pool and the maximum coverage is $250,000. That being said, the lion's share of premiums are paid for by those coastal properties. Except for the impacts of Katrina, coastal premiums had far surpassed coastal payouts every year that they were collected. That is not the same as inland properties. The floods that you see every year along the Nation's great rivers almost ALWAYS are subsidized by the coastal owner. One of the glaring problems is how to have inland properties be built to better standards to reduce those costs.

Another point is that outside of Katrina, the National Flood Insurance Program was in a positive cash flow situation. The problem with Katrina was not the people who paid for flood insurance, it was the people in coastal Mississippi that did not. They relied upon the government telling them they were at risk through the mapping process when they could see the water from the house. As a matter of fact, many people argue with the current mapping process and have studies done to move the lines so that there mortgage bank doesn't make them buy it. Here is the best advice I can give anyone in sowal....

If you can see a coastal water body (gulf, lake, bay) from your house BUY FLOOD INSURANCE!!! If you are in an X zone it will be really cheap and it is dumb not to do. This is even more important for properties along the Bay and north of 98 as they are even more susceptible to flooding one day than people along the Santa Rosa Ridge.

As for COBRA zones, they were defined by USFWS as areas that would be ineligible for any federal expenditures in those areas and were designed to limit development. I know of the properties you are speaking of and their efforts to adjust the COBRA zones along western lake but don't know the specifics.

 

[BeachSiO2]

That was no more tangential than anything else here. I too have learned quite a bit from your posts. Hopefully I've returned the favor here and there. ;-)

That you have...

 

[BeachSiO2]

homes in BMB, between 83 and Big Redfish, have been rebuilt, and they are south of the CCCL, according to the maps. IMO, some should have never been allowed to rebuild in place after the storms washed away much of the sand under the homes.

That's the old 50% damaged rule, allowing rebuilds if less than 50% value is not lost. I met with one unnamed owner in that area and told them emphatically that it was not a good idea to rebuild their house in the current position but to tear it down and rebuild it in a more landward position and park underneath. My advice was not heeded...

 

[Smiling JOe]

I bet you are talking about the home west and adjacent to the eastern most public access from 83. I cannot believe they rebuilt on the same spot. Some people never learn. I often observe ants in my yard. They are fascinating and intelligent creatures. Sometimes when I watch them, I think of the ants as the characters in Huxley's Brave New World. One of the interesting observations is that if ants build a mound, then I start using that area, stepping on the ant bed, often, the ants pack up and move out to another area. They will continue to move, until they stop getting their home destroyed. If only people could be as smart as ants.

 

[Busta Hustle]

bmbvagrant
1. wrong: i support your legal right to have your private beach since it was deeded to you by the county(if that deeding did not break state or federal laws) when you purchased. i support your right to prevent trespass equally as i would any other property owner.
2. wrong: government support IS tax, PUBLIC money. i gladly support the "free" fema $$$ like the $3000 or so that was received by people as emergency funds to protect life and limb and for food and shelter. Most other FEMA $$ comes in the form of "loans" which is fine with me.

I do not support Citizens Insurance use of PUBLIC tax $$$ for PRIVATE property. Citizens makes the single mom in Defuniak who only buys car insurance and does not own a home, subsidize your beach front wind insurance. You should pay that private bill with your PRIVATE funds. i think once you have accepted Public funds to help pay for your Private insurance bill then just maybe your private beach just becomes "a little" more shall we say publically "funded" every year until you get off Citizens Insurance. As a staunch individualist or at least PRIVATE property rights activist at least on this thread I would not have guessed you would accept PUBLIC $$$ support for you private wind insurance.

Your are on sewer, as i said before BRAVO...you suggested to pay and impact fee for your walkovers(and seawall if you have 1) BRAVO...now just go ahead and actually cut the check and your PRIVATE beach stays even more so...

To say that Citizens Insurance has nothing to do with this thread....but that is the heart of the matter(or maybe at least a footnote)...PUBLIC $$$ supports your PRIVATE PROPERTY. And yes I'm against it across the board not just your Private property.

Lastly for now...I am totally against PUBLIC MONEY to be spent on sand or beach restoration except for the support of utilities such as roads water sewer etc. If your PRIVATE property has no beach i think you are deeded to rebuild with your PRIVATE $$$
on the area within your property lines after proper permitting and impact fees if doing so affects other PRIVATE or PUBLIC properties.

I think the beaches support themselves quite naturally and there are no emergency cases of needed restoration with PUBLIC funds just to "WIDEN" a place that used to be wide. As long as PRIVATE funds support PRIVATE beaches great. Without a public vote for restoration of public beaches i'm against...It's milliions of PUBLIC $$$$ to push sand around...

 

[DuneLaker]

Walton County is unique. Walton County is very unique WaltonGOP. Besides the large number of coastal dune lakes, we have the highest elevation in Florida at Britton Hill in the Lakewood area near Paxton. Cool place to visit for all who haven't been there. It is the lowest "high" in the United States. Just take 331 north almost to Alabama. About 55 minute drive from beach.

Barrier Islands are Diffent. And if I may Beachsio2, our Emerald Coast barrier islands are also unique and different from say Atlantic barrier islands. Our area barrier islands developed during the Quaternary period unlike say St. Simons Island which developed during the Pleistocene period. They developed at different times and in different ways as a function of sea-level position and water energy. Different age different energy. However, the various peninsulas behind the long-thin barrier island are considered Pleistocene.


Rich and Long History. In addition to this unique geography, geology, ecosystem, we also have a unique and authentic history. When Cabeza de Vaca was by here in 1528 he noted native peoples on our shore. So guess the beach has been public for a long recorded time.

Special. With all this unique history and environment, this complicated issue may require that Walton County will need extra attention as all this gets hashed out in the courts.