Religulous

[bentley williams]

Him and others have said it is just as silly to be an atheist because that is still blind faith and arrogance that you believe you know the truth instead of being humble and admitting "not to know". This is the secret of life IMO - the ability to understand that there are not always clear answers. The ability to learn and grow, to embark upon a path of discovery, to realize you may never know all the answers, especially to the big questions, and be OK with it. To enjoy the journey and not worry so much about the destination.

People who claim to have all the answers are either crazy, or trying to put one over on you. In either case, staying away from them would be a wise choice.

 

[LuciferSam]

Him and others have said it is just as silly to be an atheist because that is still blind faith and arrogance that you believe you know the truth instead of being humble and admitting "not to know". This is the secret of life IMO - the ability to understand that there are not always clear answers. The ability to learn and grow, to embark upon a path of discovery, to realize you may never know all the answers, especially to the big questions, and be OK with it. To enjoy the journey and not worry so much about the destination.

People who claim to have all the answers are either crazy, or trying to put one over on you. In either case, staying away from them would be a wise choice.

This is where I disagree with Maher. What about people who have never even heard of the idea of God? Unlikely in today's world but still possible, so please play along. They are atheists, though they don't actively deny the existence of higher powers because they've never considered them. There is no faith involved. So now if somebody simply tells him about the widespread god myth (a myth at least in his mind) and he refuses to consider it based on the glaring lack of evidence, is that really an act of faith? Atheism is just a refusal to consider what appears to be a baseless belief. It is only the seeming ubiquity of belief and scarcity of non-belief that makes atheism seem like faith. Atheism could only be considered faith if one feels that it requires faith to dismiss majority opinion.

 

[hnooe]

Him and others have said it is just as silly to be an atheist because that is still blind faith and arrogance that you believe you know the truth instead of being humble and admitting "not to know". This is the secret of life IMO - the ability to understand that there are not always clear answers. The ability to learn and grow, to embark upon a path of discovery, to realize you may never know all the answers, especially to the big questions, and be OK with it. To enjoy the journey and not worry so much about the destination.

People who claim to have all the answers are either crazy, or trying to put one over on you. In either case, staying away from them would be a wise choice.

Wow, the secret of Life revealed in 2 paragraphs. Excellent post!!!!

 

[Smiling JOe]

This is where I disagree with Maher. What about people who have never even heard of the idea of God? Unlikely in today's world but still possible, so please play along. They are atheists, though they don't actively deny the existence of higher powers because they've never considered them. There is no faith involved. So now if somebody simply tells him about the widespread god myth (a myth at least in his mind) and he refuses to consider it based on the glaring lack of evidence, is that really an act of faith? Atheism is just a refusal to consider what appears to be a baseless belief. It is only the seeming ubiquity of belief and scarcity of non-belief that makes atheism seem like faith. Atheism could only be considered faith if one feels that it requires faith to dismiss majority opinion.

I disagree with your statements above.

Atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

For one who is unaware of God, doesn't believe that that God doesn't exist. "Belief" is an active word, meaning it requires effort or thought. One who has never thought about the concept of God, doesn't have belief that God doesn't exist.

 

[LuciferSam]

I disagree with your statements above.

Atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

For one who is unaware of God, doesn't believe that that God doesn't exist. "Belief" is an active word, meaning it requires effort or thought. One who has never thought about the concept of God, doesn't have belief that God doesn't exist.

Fair enough if you define it that way. Another acceptable definition of atheism is simply "godlessness". In any event, they are non-theists. My main point is that if if you inform this non-theist about your belief in god and he chooses atheism based on his perceived zero evidence of God (after research and due diligence), then his atheism is not an act of faith. It's almost an exact continuation of his current beliefs (or lack thereof). The only difference is that he is now aware that some people believe in this god thing. I wouldn't call it faith just because of his minority view.

You would be hard pressed to provide him with with evidence for god's existence. Belief without evidence, now that's faith, and the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. It doesn't require faith to disbelieve in Bigfoot but it does require evidence to prove his existence to somebody who is thinking rationally. Same with the invisible cloud being a.k.a. God. That being said, I'm sure some people think there is hard evidence for God's existence. I respectfully disagree.

Of course, all this is all just my opinion, but I stand by it unless somebody offers me a convincing evidence otherwise. If this is anyone's definition of faith then we're reading different dictionaries. I think it's fair to say that most people dismiss certain ideas as nonsense and this dismissal is not an act of faith. Atheists just happen to dismiss the idea of God much the same way the average person dismisses conspiracy theories involving black helicopters, space aliens, or whatever.

 

[Smiling JOe]

It wasn't me who defined it that way. It was the dictionary's definition, and it is the definition I learned in philosophy classes while in college, and it is also the way that some the small hand-full of atheist whom I know, define there thoughts of it. I didn't see "godlessness" as a definition for "atheism" in my dictionary. Using your definition, I can understand your thought on the subject. Philosophically speaking, the word godlessness is an oxymoron. Either there is a God or there isn't, but if there is the concept of God, God exists at least in our mind, if not in our physical world, so God exists either way, if by definition and concept alone.

It's almost an exact continuation of his current beliefs (or lack thereof)

"lack thereof" is more precise, given your definition. "Current beliefs" ties more into the definition I was using, and for one to have beliefs that God doesn't exist, that requires effort/thought, where as lack of belief requires nothing.

I think about this person you mention, who has no concept of God, even after being told by others. That isn't to say that the person doesn't believe in God. It could simply mean that the person sees God through different eyes, and doesn't recognize God in name. Let's say in that same remote village, they have a word for each of the 10,000 shades of blue, yet you recognize each of the colors as simply being blue. Your limited vocabulary of the term "blue" doesn't mean that you cannot see all 10,000 shades and variations, yet you still wouldn't use all 10,000 names to describe the shades of blue. You would therefore reject those names and simplify each as "blue."

Atheists just happen to dismiss the idea of God

Here, you use it again, outside of your definition. The person you describe, never having been informed about God from the outside world, doesn't dismiss anything, until AFTER his encounter with the informer. Using your definition, if he was just Godless, he wouldn't be dismissing God, which takes action/thought. It sounds like you are using two very different definitions of atheist to prove one point about faith. I think I understand your point on faith very well, and I agree with it. I just have a problem with the semantics on atheism.

 

[LuciferSam]

It wasn't me who defined it that way. It was the dictionary's definition, and it is the definition I learned in philosophy classes while in college, and it is also the way that some the small hand-full of atheist whom I know, define there thoughts of it. I didn't see "godlessness" as a definition for "atheism" in my dictionary. Using your definition, I can understand your thought on the subject. Philosophically speaking, the word godlessness is an oxymoron. Either there is a God or there isn't, but if there is the concept of God, God exists at least in our mind, if not in our physical world, so God exists either way, if by definition and concept alone.

"lack thereof" is more precise, given your definition. "Current beliefs" ties more into the definition I was using, and for one to have beliefs that God doesn't exist, that requires effort/thought, where as lack of belief requires nothing.

I think about this person you mention, who has no concept of God, even after being told by others. That isn't to say that the person doesn't believe in God. It could simply mean that the person sees God through different eyes, and doesn't recognize God in name. Let's say in that same remote village, they have a word for each of the 10,000 shades of blue, yet you recognize each of the colors as simply being blue. Your limited vocabulary of the term "blue" doesn't mean that you cannot see all 10,000 shades and variations, yet you still wouldn't use all 10,000 names to describe the shades of blue. You would therefore reject those names and simplify each as "blue."


Here, you use it again, outside of your definition. The person you describe, never having been informed about God from the outside world, doesn't dismiss anything, until AFTER his encounter with the informer. Using your definition, if he was just Godless, he wouldn't be dismissing God, which takes action/thought. It sounds like you are using two very different definitions of atheist to prove one point about faith. I think I understand your point on faith very well, and I agree with it. I just have a problem with the semantics on atheism.

I think you didn't see how I accepted your definition of atheism and then went on to explain why I think atheism using your definition does not require faith simply because it is unconventional. I tried to show a transition of a person from non-theism to atheism as you see it. By the way, in my mind, both definitions are fine. I consider atheism to be either denial of God's existence or lack of knowledge about God.

I think you might have missed what I said about this newly informed former non-theist. This person does have a concept of God after being informed. Remember I said he does his research and then rejects belief (adopts the common definition of atheism) because he sees no evidence. Even so, his opinions about a real tangible god haven't changed much, and I contend that his lack of belief is not an act of faith. As a concept, God is certainly real in the mind of anyone familiar with it. To really nail anything down it is necessary to define terms, so I guess you'd even have to define what you mean by God. I'm not talking about anything conceptual.