Senators turn back ID requirement for immigrant healthcare

[GoodWitch58]

So, why do so many U. S. companies hire non-citizens?

From the one I know about first hand, it is because they pay them much less; they do not have to pay for any benefits; and they can fire them immediately and for any, or no reason. And, I don't think the argument that citizens won't work for the same wages, works anymore; not in this economy.

Would most companies hired these same individuals if they were citizens?

I believe we must get an understanding of why there is a job market for so many non-citizens in this country, before we can solve the problem.

And, I would much prefer they all get health care and be healthy--as SWGB pointed out; that is much cheaper than an extensive illness...and it's much cheaper than a few non-citizens having H1N1 or some other virus, and infecting everyone they come into contact with...

I think there are reasonable solutions to what problems exist...there is just not the political will to go up against the companies that provide the jobs for the non-citizens; and it is too easy for too many to blame non-citizens for "taking something from me." It is basically a distraction from the real issue in most cases, IMO.

 

[Here4Good]

It is basically a distraction from the real issue in most cases, IMO.

Exactly.

 

[kkddbb]

For the fiscal conservatives consider these scenarios. I am using the term illegal because it's just to long to write out immigrant each time.

1.) An illegal has an abscess and goes to a doctor to have it drained and treated. Approximate cost to US citizens in fraud $100.00.

2.) An illegal has an abscess and can't see a doctor so leaves it untreated. They eventually pass out from pain or infection at home, in a social situation, or at work. Someone calls 911 and the illegal is rushed to the emergency room by ambulance where they are treated and admitted to the hospital. Once conscious it is determined the illegal is to be deported, but not until they are medically stable.

Which is the cheaper option that will save money?

a bit of a generalization dont ya think? you take a few of these examples and compare them to all illegals getting coverage, youll get a big difference in claims and figures. we can all pick out a few examples, but we have to consider all of us combined to get a realistic understanding.

 

[Matt J]

a bit of a generalization dont ya think? you take a few of these examples and compare them to all illegals getting coverage, youll get a big difference in claims and figures. we can all pick out a few examples, but we have to consider all of us combined to get a realistic understanding.

Now we all come together. :roll:

 

[Andy A]

What is the real reason for objection behind having an ID that verifies you are an American citizen or here in a legal capacity?
Every military active duty person and retired military person carries a government issued ID card in order to access services and privliges to which they are entitled. To the best of my knowledge, most never complain about it and most, as I am, view it as a recognition of entitlement.
There is no valid reason why we shouldn't recognize those here legally and who are citizens. BTW, I also have a valid U.S. passport, which by regulation, must have my photo on it.
It would seem many in this country complain about their loss of "personal freedoms" while ignoring the total denigration of our liberties by sources not entitled to those liberties.

 

[kkddbb]

What is the real reason for objection behind having an ID that verifies you are an American citizen or here in a legal capacity?
Every military active duty person and retired military person carries a government issued ID card in order to access services and privliges to which they are entitled. To the best of my knowledge, most never complain about it and most, as I am, view it as a recognition of entitlement.
There is no valid reason why we shouldn't recognize those here legally and who are citizens. BTW, I also have a valid U.S. passport, which by regulation, must have my photo on it.
It would seem many in this country complain about their loss of "personal freedoms" while ignoring the total denigration of our liberties by sources not entitled to those liberties.

theres nothing wrong with asking for id. this is all a political show. its a way for the dems to get minority votes, period. theyve been doing the samething to black americans for decades. its not about whats best for the system, but rather whats best for the party at the ballot box. sad but true

 

[Here4Good]

What is the real reason for objection behind having an ID that verifies you are an American citizen or here in a legal capacity?
Every military active duty person and retired military person carries a government issued ID card in order to access services and privliges to which they are entitled. To the best of my knowledge, most never complain about it and most, as I am, view it as a recognition of entitlement.
There is no valid reason why we shouldn't recognize those here legally and who are citizens. BTW, I also have a valid U.S. passport, which by regulation, must have my photo on it.
It would seem many in this country complain about their loss of "personal freedoms" while ignoring the total denigration of our liberties by sources not entitled to those liberties.

I know, Andy, most of us have multiple IDs, and are officially "registered" with the FBI or some other agency due to some job requirement or military duty.

I'm just saying that as soon as you make that official, and universal, there will be an outcry against every law-abiding citizen having to "register" with the government, and the protesters will be telling you that this is so the government can track you down and make you do whatever it is they want. (Usually, it is that you would have to give up your guns and/or justify all of that money that is in the coffee can under the back porch.) It would mean a universal database; would you have to notify the feds if you move, like a registered sex offender? It makes a lot of people uneasy, this database of American citizens which would exist simply to be a list of American citizens.

We have a long standing legal precedent in this country that if you break no law, and do not attempt to interact with the government, they cannot make you interact with them. You don't HAVE to have a Social Security #. You can get a taxpayer ID. You don't HAVE to file taxes; unless someone else (employer, bank which pays you interest etc) files a form in your name, the IRS will not come and find you. You dont' HAVE to drive, vote, serve in the military, become a licensed anything, or take any other action which brings the government to your door. You don't HAVE to get your children social security #'s, if you don't want to claim them on your income tax returns.

I am not normally in agreement with the faction which wants to live this way (although this also includes the Amish and many Quakers) but I do agree that it is their right.

Heck, to vote you basically sign an affidavit saying you are who you are. Yeah, you show a picture ID, but I think there are circumstances where that is waived.

And frankly, I think the do-not-fly list proves that the feds are not capable of maintaining a database in a reliable enough manner to deny someone health care.

 

[Lynnie]

Is getting fingerprinted for State ID or DL throwing you into a database?

 

[Here4Good]

Is getting fingerprinted for State ID or DL throwing you into a database?

Yes, but it is not shared with the Federal government. For example, when they start looking at fingerprints in a criminal case, they can scan the existing database of fingerprints of anyone ever arrested, but not the DL database. Allegedly.

Law Enforcement would like nothing better than to have a full database of the DNA of everyone in the country. Imagine how that would help! Seriously, it could eliminate wrongful arrests, and get rapists and murderers off of the streets. Imagine, however, that your database entry also shows that you have the gene which shows a tendency towards Altzheimer's, and you are 55 years old and looking for a job. Gets a little scary, that data being out there, doesn't it?

This is what I think of when I hear the saying, "Freedom is not free". It means that you not only have to respect your own freedom, but that of your fellow citizens, even the ones you don't like. It means you have tradeoffs.

 

[Matt J]

It's interesting that the conservative right is always after a national ID. :scratch:

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