Skate Park

[Mango]

I have a degree in Physical Education and believe me nothing is more dangerous than a playground of any type. Along with any sports be it, football, or especially gymnastics. Swimming pools too.

Many of our classes dealt with liability. I don't see the skate park being any more dangerous than an unsupervised playground.

There are very few activities that kids can participate in without another participant, therefore I can see the interest in a skate park by many.

Minnie, all of the sports you listed are supervised to a large degree. Most parents are with their kids in a playground to watch their children. Even if a skate park was supervised, it's literally impossible to keep up with every kid moving at the speeds they are moving. The maintenance of the grounds for other sports is not nearly as detailed as maintaining a skate park especially in environments subject to extreme heat and cold. So far no one has looked into the insurance costs for this which appears to be expensive. I also read from a legal perspective that if a park is supervised, you've just allowed a potential lawsuit to reach first base. Unfortunately we live in a sue happy society.

On the flip positive side, I read that accidents in skate parks are fairly minute in relation to the given amount of them in CA. I would love to see something for kids that they would enjoy, but as a taxpayer (and I stress that) I have serious concerns about the potential implications from a possible lawsuit. Where would the money come from? Would bed taxes be increased or real estate taxes to make up the shortfall in paying out a future lawsuit potentially in the millions? Would insurance cover this? Lots of questions to be answered. Just trying to keep it real. I can understand the excitement of wanting one. They look like oodles of funn.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Since the County is cutting the Mosquito Control Mgr's salaried position from $120,000 back to around $60,000, maybe that money is now available every year. A couple of years should pay for a skate park, eh? Add some advertising and wah-la! I can see it now, "QuickSilver Skate Park."

 

[Bobby J]

Minnie, all of the sports you listed are supervised to a large degree. Most parents are with their kids in a playground to watch their children. Even if a skate park was supervised, it's literally impossible to keep up with every kid moving at the speeds they are moving. The maintenance of the grounds for other sports is not nearly as detailed as maintaining a skate park especially in environments subject to extreme heat and cold. So far no one has looked into the insurance costs for this which appears to be expensive. I also read from a legal perspective that if a park is supervised, you've just allowed a potential lawsuit to reach first base. Unfortunately we live in a sue happy society.

On the flip positive side, I read that accidents in skate parks are fairly minute in relation to the given amount of them in CA. I would love to see something for kids that they would enjoy, but as a taxpayer (and I stress that) I have serious concerns about the potential implications from a possible lawsuit. Where would the money come from? Would bed taxes be increased or real estate taxes to make up the shortfall in paying out a future lawsuit potentially in the millions? Would insurance cover this? Lots of questions to be answered. Just trying to keep it real. I can understand the excitement of wanting one. They look like oodles of funn.

The liability would be the same as any other sport played on county property. It will not change your tax base at all. My understanding of this bill is you will not be able to sue and if you do it will be thrown out:

The 2006 Florida Statutes​

Title XXIII​

MOTOR VEHICLES​

Chapter 316​

STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL​

View Entire Chapter​

316.0085 Skateboarding; inline skating; freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling; paintball; definitions; liability.--
(1) The purpose of this section is to encourage governmental owners or lessees of property to make land available to the public for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, and freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling. It is recognized that governmental owners or lessees of property have failed to make property available for such activities because of the exposure to liability from lawsuits and the prohibitive cost of insurance, if insurance can be obtained for such activities. It is also recognized that risks and dangers are inherent in these activities, which risks and dangers should be assumed by those participating in such activities.
(2) As used in this section, the term:
(a) "Governmental entity" means:
1. The United States, the State of Florida, any county or municipality, or any department, agency, or other instrumentality thereof.
2. Any school board, special district, authority, or other entity exercising governmental authority.
(b) "Inherent risk" means those dangers or conditions that are characteristic of, intrinsic to, or an integral part of skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, and freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling.
(3) This section does not grant authority or permission for a person to engage in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling on property owned or controlled by a governmental entity unless such governmental entity has specifically designated such area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling. Each governmental entity shall post a rule in each specifically designated area that identifies all authorized activities and indicates that a child under 17 years of age may not engage in any of those activities until the governmental entity has obtained written consent, in a form acceptable to the governmental entity, from the child's parents or legal guardians.
(4) A governmental entity or public employee is not liable to any person who voluntarily participates in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling for any damage or injury to property or persons which arises out of a person's participation in such activity, and which takes place in an area designated for such activity.
(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.
(c) The failure of a governmental entity that provides a designated area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling to obtain the written consent, in a form acceptable to the governmental entity, from the parents or legal guardians of any child under 17 years of age before authorizing such child to participate in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling in such designated area, unless that child's participation is in violation of posted rules governing the authorized use of the designated area, except that a parent or legal guardian must demonstrate that written consent to engage in mountain or off-road bicycling in a designated area was provided to the governmental entity before entering the designated area. 

Nothing in this subsection creates a duty of care or basis of liability for death, personal injury, or damage to personal property. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to be a waiver of sovereign immunity under any circumstances.
(6) Nothing in this section shall limit the liability of an independent concessionaire, or any person or organization other than a governmental entity or public employee, whether or not the person or organization has a contractual relationship with a governmental entity to use the public property, for injuries or damages suffered in any case as a result of the operation of skateboards, inline skates, paintball equipment, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycles on public property by the concessionaire, person, or organization.
(7)(a) Any person who participates in or assists in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling assumes the known and unknown inherent risks in these activities irrespective of age, and is legally responsible for all damages, injury, or death to himself or herself or other persons or property which result from these activities. Any person who observes skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling assumes the known and unknown inherent risks in these activities irrespective of age, and is legally responsible for all damages, injury, or death to himself or herself which result from these activities. A governmental entity that sponsors, allows, or permits skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling on its property is not required to eliminate, alter, or control the inherent risks in these activities.
(b) While engaged in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling, irrespective of where such activities occur, a participant is responsible for doing all of the following:
1. Acting within the limits of his or her ability and the purpose and design of the equipment used.
2. Maintaining control of his or her person and the equipment used.
3. Refraining from acting in any manner which may cause or contribute to death or injury of himself or herself, or other persons. 

Failure to comply with the requirements of this paragraph shall constitute negligence.
(8) The fact that a governmental entity carries insurance which covers any act described in this section shall not constitute a waiver of the protections set forth in this section, regardless of the existence or limits of such coverage.
History.--s. 1, ch. 99-133; s. 1, ch. 2004-288; s. 7, ch. 2006-290.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, this liability is exactly what I was talking about the County being open to:

(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.

 

[Mango]

The liability would be the same as any other sport played on county property. It will not change your tax base at all. My understanding of this bill is you will not be able to sue and if you do it will be thrown out:.
(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.
(c) The failure of a governmental entity that provides a designated area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain

I've been watching A Christmas Story and I keep hearing, "you'll shoot your eye out kid.
Bobby, section 5 appears to leave quite a bit open IMHO, but I am not a lawyer. I am kind of relieved that there are not as many reported injuries with this sport, maybe because kids are embarrassed to report them.
I found this article interesting written by Illinois attorneys regarding liability. I am not sure if the laws are similar there.
http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/2002/ip20128.html
Here's another.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/932/story/131139.html

 

[Bobby J]

Bobby, this liability is exactly what I was talking about the County being open to:

(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.

(a) would be the one I am not sure about. It seems (b) would be common sense things... Large crack in concrete, etc. Actually they both go hand in hand. The lawyer that turned me on to this said, it will be very hard to sue the county. I think section 5 would apply for any sport on county property. Does Il. have this same statutes? I believe the bill is written to encourage the local governments in Florida to act. One of the original problems in Florida was the liability issue. That is why this bill was passed. I can only imagine the hassles it took to get this thing through the proper channels. I would feel pretty confident as a land owner that this bill will carry a lot of weight when some "sue happy" person tries to challenge it.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, I'm sure that law which you cite reduces liability greatly, by the user who choses to skate and falls with an injury, at no fault of anyone else and no negligence of maintenance or repairs. That is probably the most common occurring lawsuits brought in the past on this type of issue (just my guess). If the County is doing their job, they have someone from Parks and Recreation inspecting the park regularly, maybe daily, with written checklists. They will also have a few ways of reporting items of repair which need attention, via email or phone call, with signs posted with contact information for reporting repairs needed. If they are doing all of that and making any repairs quickly, and or posting signs and taping off the problem areas needing or being repaired in a timely fashion, their liability will likely decrease. However, in a County where developers can build a bridge across the wetlands, or dig canals into dry land in order to create more waterfront property, before the County discovers it, I would bet that they cannot handle something like regularly monitoring cracks or chips in concrete.

 

[Bobby J]

Bobby, I'm sure that law which you cite reduces liability greatly, by the user who choses to skate and falls with an injury, at no fault of anyone else and no negligence of maintenance or repairs. That is probably the most common occurring lawsuits brought in the past on this type of issue (just my guess). If the County is doing their job, they have someone from Parks and Recreation inspecting the park regularly, maybe daily, with written checklists. They will also have a few ways of reporting items of repair which need attention, via email or phone call, with signs posted with contact information for reporting repairs needed. If they are doing all of that and making any repairs quickly, and or posting signs and taping off the problem areas needing or being repaired in a timely fashion, their liability will likely decrease. However, in a County where developers can build a bridge across the wetlands, or dig canals into dry land in order to create more waterfront property, before the County discovers it, I would bet that they cannot handle something like regularly monitoring cracks or chips in concrete.

Sad but true.... I still feel that we can not live our life based on "what if". People sue all the time and a bill was written to try and protect counties from the problem. I have had several pms and phone calls of support on this issue. I really think the kids of SoWal would like to see this thing come to life. SJ, you are already getting ready today!

 

[jessifunn]

For those interested in pursuing a skate park - there is some money available for the skate park. I wish I could remember the man's name, but some of you probably do... The mother of the young man that died in a car accident on 30A in front of Redfish Village a few years ago sued the builder and some of the contractors and won more than $1M. At the time she won the suit, she said she was going to donate some of the money (I think $250K) to building a skate park in the area since it was one of her son's passions. Sounds like a good place to start.

His name is Joseph Eddie
Back in the day we use to skate behind the brick yard in an old run down tennis court.

No doubt there is a need for a skate park. In Atlantic Beach (Jacksonville) they have a public park. No fees and you have to wear helmets. A securtity guard patrols the park and it closes at sun down. They don't seem to have any problems and you will often see mom and dad with the kids enjoying the park.

Also there might not be Skate or Surf teams at schools, but a lot of the time they do have clubs. I went to college in Jacksonville and we had a surf and skate team. They did a lot of volunteer work in the community. UNF acutally has a skate park on campus.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I know that Code Enforcement has only about 6 officers on duty, except for weekends and holidays, but they should not be the people doing the routine inspections of such a park. I think that should fall under the Dept of Parks and Recreation, and for all I know, they will do a splendid job. I believe there are only two people listed in this Dept with the County. Have you contacted either of them? Their contact info is on WalCo's website under Parks and Recreation.

I don't mean to sound as negative as I am probably appearing. I like the idea of getting a skate park. I have seriously thought about getting a long board for a few years now. I doubt I'd use it for anything other than flat ground, but I have an old body, filled with aches and pains. Those kids are a different story. You asked for the cons, and I am just prepping you for what is sure to come from many people. With the proper systems in place, I think the County could greatly limit their exposure and this could be a doable thing once allocated funding and land. I am dead serious about getting advertising to pay for it, and I'm not talking about local ads. I doubt that ad money would be spent, and wouldn't amount to much. Get some major skate apparel labels and shoes like Vans, along with some board companies, etc. and they should jump on it and be able to provide funding. Especially if their ads could be seen from Google Earth -- horizontal billboards, baby! It's coming.