St Joe SummerCamp

[Paula]

I have read both books, and yes, there are many pearls in there. What I think is misleading is they recommend just about everyone get leveraged to the hilt and buy up property. Yes, it works if you do your homework, yes its hard work, unless you are just in the right market at the right time (remember day traders in the 90s). The methods they expouse depend on rapidly rising values. All the short term net worth comes from increasing appraisals. Getting people to go in thinking all RE is going to go up 10% a year is misleading.

When everyone starts doing something, time to bail.

I did a search of comments on that Rich Dad/Poor Dad book/speaker earlier today and there were many mixed reviews. It was strange to read the mixed reviews because I enjoyed the book and simply did not hear the same message that others read (e.g., get leveraged to the hilt and buy up property). He may well have meant this but I read it about 2 years before I bought into SoWal and wasn't close to any real estate frenzy so that wasn't a scenario that came to my mind. What I read from his book is to save money, invest wisely, and real estate can be a wise way to invest. I really don't remember if he recommended it as the best investment, nor do I remember his specific strategies for real estate investing.

I'm not a make-money-quick or quick fix person (in fact, I'm extremely cautious), so I'd be surprised if I liked a book with a get-rich-quick sentiment. And I'd never go to a talk that was promoted with "One weekend can make you a millionaire" (maybe that's why I didn't watch the PBS special -- it seemed like it was going to be too slick for my taste). If I had time now (I don't) I'd consider re-reading the book because it seems controversial and I'm curious if I'd read it the same way now that I've been exposed to real estate ups, downs, and frenzies. I'd be curious to see if I still felt he was helpful or if I felt he was misleading people. I will say I felt I made better financial decisions after reading that book. Though based on the comments here, I don't think I'll continue to recommend it to MBAs if his message is indeed to get leveraged to the hilt...(Unless I re-read it myself).

Did you have the same reaction to The Millionaire Next Door (e.g. "get leveraged to the hilt...).

 

[SHELLY]

The shame is that Shelly has very valid, well forumlated and, in many instances, accurate opinions. If these opinions were presented in a less cutting, sarcastic and bitter tone, I think the result would be a more open forum that focuses on different viewpoints rather than everyone fighting with each other about who is right. In short, let the free flow of opinions continue, but let's try to present those opinions in a more respectful manner.

George,

Thanks for the "shout out"...I'm well aware that my delivery is pretty in-u-face.

I feel strongly about the way greedy developers took advantage of the real estate money-grab and stirred up a frenzy which laid waste to our once pristine coastal areas by bulldozing our beautiful trees and dunes and carving out faux villages and condos, many of which will never be more than images left to linger on websites in search of investors--talk about screwing up an area's economy.

But I digress.......

As much as it would delight and amuse some board members, I fear I'll never be able to cross over to the other side, take a seat around the campfire, hold hands, and join in a chorus of "Kumbiya."

Quite frankly, I think an issue that would leave "folks scratching their heads and wonder why" would be the likes of the Great Pedicure Price and Color Debate" in the lounge as to what will be "THE" color for toenail polish this summer: Rock-A-Pulco Red or the "very springy" Pagoda Pink. I wanted to cast my vote for the Rock-A-Pulco Red, felt it better not to wade into that red-hot controversy!

 

[TooFarTampa]

Quite frankly, I think an issue that would leave "folks scratching their heads and wonder why" would be the likes of the Great Pedicure Price and Color Debate" in the lounge as to what will be "THE" color for toenail polish this summer: Rock-A-Pulco Red or the "very springy" Pagoda Pink. I wanted to cast my vote for the Rock-A-Pulco Red, felt it better not to wade into that red-hot controversy!

I knew it! You are a lounge lurker!

Shelly your posts often remind me of the columnist/essayist Diane Roberts. Ever read her? I think she writes for the Tallahassee Democrat now. Anyway, she is biting, and somewhat annoying, and I could never agree with her 100 percent because I am just not built that way, but she is fine writer and there is often a lot of truth mixed in with her sarcasm. You're pretty well-read; I imagine you've come across some of her work railing against heartless developers and politicians. It is entertaining. She is sort of the Maureen Dowd of Florida's environmental causes. You would enjoy having lunch with her I am sure ... though I would want to be at least 50 feet back from that table.

 

[Jdarg]

George,

But I digress.......

As much as it would delight and amuse some board members, I fear I'll never be able to cross over to the other side, take a seat around the campfire, hold hands, and join in a chorus of "Kumbiya."

Quite frankly, I think an issue that would leave "folks scratching their heads and wonder why" would be the likes of the Great Pedicure Price and Color Debate" in the lounge as to what will be "THE" color for toenail polish this summer: Rock-A-Pulco Red or the "very springy" Pagoda Pink. I wanted to cast my vote for the Rock-A-Pulco Red, felt it better not to wade into that red-hot controversy!

Good grief Shelley, it's not too hard. Paint the toes on your right foot the Rock-a-Pulco Red, the left foot toes can be the Pagoda Pink. See, you have pleased both sides of the fence now. I prefer "One Month Old French Pedi"- the aged look with cracks and character to the polish... now I digress....

But you better learn "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" for the campfire. "Kumbiya" is so last year's campfire song.:roll:

I'm running back to the lounge now Shelley, but I do duck over here occasionally to see who's grousing and complaining, and who's winning the war of words about seawalls (and it appears that war is going just about as well as our war in Iraq...:shock: ).

 

[beachmouse]

Diane Roberts wrote a book called Dream State : Eight Generations of Swamp Lawyers, Conquistadors, Confederate Daughters, Banana Republicans, and Other Florida Wildlife One part state history, one part family history, and funny as heck. You can read the first ten pages or so on Amazon, and it has the best account of the 2000 election I've come across.

"You can't blame them. It's hard not to feel (though most of the reporters have stopped saying it) that a constitutional crisis should be happening some place with more gravitas: New York or Pennsylvania, even Illinois. It's hard not to feel that the whole country's fallen down a rabbit hole. To have the presidency, the very keystone of the Great Republic, coming unglued in a state where people march around in black-felt mouse ears, a state that boasts the world's only professional clown school, a state where a good percentage of the population confuse dirty glass in Clearwater with the Virgin Mary and a small Cuban boy with Jesus Christ, is not a paradigm shift but a paradigm violation. Where's the grandeur of democracy? The clarity of the Common Law? The majesty of the Bill of Rights? Hell, where's the beach?"

**********


"Florida isn't Alabama. We promise. Or Georgia or South Carolina or Mississippi. We are bright, hopeful, and historyless. The current unpleasantness over the presidential election is like a hurricane. An act of God. Not our fault. The hurricane has ripped off a few roofs, rearranged the lawn furniture, and brought down some big tree limbs. But soon it will be over. The clouds will clear. And then we can go back to the Florida that's about fun, fun and sun and money, back to the Florida that pretends very hard the past doesn't matter.

The eternal present almost works in South Florida, where most of the population recently arrived from Michigan or New Jersey; they bulldoze the old and wild places, evidence of a pre-air-conditioned, pre-condo, pre-golf-course era. The eternal present doesn't work in North Florida, where the ghosts are in residence year-round. "

 

[Cil]

Wow, that's good stuff, Beachmouse.
Gonna look up that book right quick.

I think it is beneficial that there are people like Shelly who keep a watchful eye on corporations like Joe.

OTOH
"Pristine coastal areas" was not what came to my mind when I looked at Port St Joe's old mill site, or sniff the fragrance emitting from Arizona Chemical today.

 

[Cil]

Shelly
I edited out comments I'd made about how I hope you do more (in your private life) about your anti-development feelings rather than drop cryptic hints and troll on the messageboard. But that's really none of my business and I don't want to get into it with you. I actually do respect your stand about this stuff.

I've been married for many years to a guy who has always worked for developers and I myself always had mixed feelings about the whole thing.
But when I look back at his body of work in Colorado and other states, his aesthetics shine.

I think it was Paula who said she tried to be realistic rather than pessimistic.
This is how I try to be. I neither shout with glee over rising property values nor point my finger derisively when it stagnates.

 

[Paula]

I, too, will look into that book, Dreamstate.... Sounds fascinating. I've read many other books recommended on this thread (Green Empire, a book about the sea, and many novels) and they've all been very good. Thanks.

As for optimism/pessimism, based on personality surveys I'm both an optimist and a "defensive pessimist" (which means I tend to worry about everything that could go wrong and then come up with a plan to help buffer it -- and then I turn into an optimist and relax -- I almost always have a back-up plan, though).

To take an online assessment to see if you're a defensive pessimist go to:
http://www.wellesley.edu/Psychology/Norem/Quiz/quiz.html (Julie Norem is a well-respected researcher who makes a good case that too much optimism is over-rated and that some kinds of pessimism can help solve problems and reduce anxiety in some people. Defensive pessimism is not the same thing as being negative toward others, not seeing opportunities, or complaining but not doing anything about the situation. Rather, it is about taking actions to reduce the risks of worse-case scenarios).

To take an online assessment to assess your optimism, go to:
http://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu/ (Martin Seligman is also a well-respected researcher and former head of the American Psychological Association. He is one of the founders of the positive psychology movement which is based on the assumption that we can learn as much or more by focusing on what is good and effective about people than by focusing on what makes people dysfunctional. Psychology has historically focused on what's wrong with people and trying to fix it. Positive psychology is focused on finding what people do well -- e.g., best practices -- and then helping people learn to use these ways of thinking/acting to increase their well-being and effectiveness -- and that of others around them. The movement has its critics, no doubt, but also has a lot of good research and advice.)

In short, the research suggests that both excessive optimism and excessive pessimism can lead to problems and that a good decision-making process avoids being excessively one or another.

Fun stuff...

PS: If I had lived in SoWal or the area for a long time and saw many of the changes, I'd be concerned and very sad, too, no doubt. I don't know how I would express that concern or what I would do, though.

 

[Pirate]

First test was interesting "You may use both strategies or neither strategy consistently"

Had to have password for the second. There are quite a few interesting tests there.

 

[Paula]

Pirate: I think you can register for free at the authentic happiness site and then have access to the readings and assessments. It's fascinating stuff.