Suppressed Climate Change Report
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AA, in an earlier post, you wrote:
"Yours is a wonderfully idealistic view of the world but I don't believe it is practical or possible in today's world. "
My question about your thoughts on the framers of the Constitution was about the fact that those wild-eyed idealists somehow managed to bring their dreams into being, and they succeeded in creating a nation where free and open debate of ideas is one of the highest values. That was my attempt to suggest that perhaps idealism and pragmatism can go hand in hand rather smashingly, though you seem to be of the mindset that idealism is impractical.
A more recent idealist whose impossible dreams came true for the ongoing benefit of the wider world was John F. Kennedy (NASA and the amazing technological advances it fostered that are still being developed into new products and capabilities today). Dozens if not hundreds of other ideals-motivated individuals and groups all over the planet are making "impractical" dreams come true on the ground every day -- www. bioneers.org and TED Talks are two great resources for seeing more examples of this than you can shake a magic wand at. Perhaps the best news is that many of these people are managing to make significant money in the process.
I agree with you completely on the fact that we have the right to our different opinions and the free expression of them -- I thought that was the point I was making in my post that apparently confused you. Sorry if I was unclear.
However, I can't go along with your assumptions as to where I get my information, about climate change or anything else. I gather information from a wide variety of sources, including personal experience and observation, just as you do.
Nor can I go along with your assessment of what constitutes expertise and what does not: formal education and professional experience are two routes to achieving a reasonable level of mastery in a given area, but it must be noted here that many people who have all kinds of credentials in a given field and are grossly incompetent, while many other people with no formal training in a given area excel beyond all expectations. There are many other routes to mastery or expertise that are just as valid as education and on-the-job experience.
As for climate change, I agree that it's cyclical, but I believe human activity is magnifying the natural cycle, and further, that new and improved approaches to human activity can reverse this trend and raise the quality of life for all citizens of the planet without having to regress to Stone Age technology. I base this belief on information collected over a lifetime from all kinds of sources, including Bioneers and TED Talks.
It's absolutely fine for you to disagree. God Bless America!
SH, you points are noted.
It would be really interesting if even one of the climate change models developed so far (endorsing anthropogenic climate change or not) could be run for the past several hundred thousand years and accurately map the climate that was experienced.
AFAIK, no one has got a model yet that will do that.
Seems like we would want to focus our efforts on validating our models before we spend our money on fixes that might or might not be correct.
There are clearly some actions that are obvious and need to be taken, like reducing energy consumption (through improved efficiencies) and keeping our air and water clean for future generations. But to embark on wholesale unproven strategies like cap & trade on the off-chance that they might help seems both foolish and very disingenuous.
AFAIK, no one has got a model yet that will do that.
Seems like we would want to focus our efforts on validating our models before we spend our money on fixes that might or might not be correct.
There are clearly some actions that are obvious and need to be taken, like reducing energy consumption (through improved efficiencies) and keeping our air and water clean for future generations. But to embark on wholesale unproven strategies like cap & trade on the off-chance that they might help seems both foolish and very disingenuous.
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For those of you that believe we are in an unprecedented period of global warming caused by man, please explain the story of Oetzi the Iceman in relation to this alleged period of unprecedented warming.
Oetzi is the mummy that was discovered in the Italian Alps back in 1991 as the glacial ice he had been buried in ice since he died over 5000 years ago began to recede. When he died over 5000 years ago, the spot where he died was NOT COVERED BY ICE. OVer time the glacial ice overtook his place of death and he became entombed and preserved in ice.
In other words, there was no glacial ice where he died 5000 years ago just like there is no more glacial ice today. The mountain pass he died in was free and clear of permanent ice when he died. So the climate 5000 years ago was similar to the climate today without all the man made CO2 in the air.
Wonder how Obama, Gore, Pelosi and pals would explain that one.
Oetzi is the mummy that was discovered in the Italian Alps back in 1991 as the glacial ice he had been buried in ice since he died over 5000 years ago began to recede. When he died over 5000 years ago, the spot where he died was NOT COVERED BY ICE. OVer time the glacial ice overtook his place of death and he became entombed and preserved in ice.
In other words, there was no glacial ice where he died 5000 years ago just like there is no more glacial ice today. The mountain pass he died in was free and clear of permanent ice when he died. So the climate 5000 years ago was similar to the climate today without all the man made CO2 in the air.
Wonder how Obama, Gore, Pelosi and pals would explain that one.
For those of you that believe we are in an unprecedented period of global warming caused by man, please explain the story of Oetzi the Iceman in relation to this alleged period of unprecedented warming.
Oetzi is the mummy that was discovered in the Italian Alps back in 1991 as the glacial ice he had been buried in ice since he died over 5000 years ago began to recede. When he died over 5000 years ago, the spot where he died was NOT COVERED BY ICE. OVer time the glacial ice overtook his place of death and he became entombed and preserved in ice.
In other words, there was no glacial ice where he died 5000 years ago just like there is no more glacial ice today. The mountain pass he died in was free and clear of permanent ice when he died. So the climate 5000 years ago was similar to the climate today without all the man made CO2 in the air.
Wonder how Obama, Gore, Pelosi and pals would explain that one.
I think looking at isolated examples here and there is typical of the reductionist and mechanistic thinking that I and many others see as responsible for a whole host of problems, or unintended consequences we are experiencing in our world today. We haven't got models yet or sufficient data to enter to predict exactly how our present climate scenario may develop if we continue business as usual or make some changes. I think that's a huge component of the thinking on climate change -- we don't know what's gonna happen, it's so complex, but most of the models don't suggest a good or happy or comfy outcome for most humans, so let's quit fouling our nest.
Making some much needed and long overdue corrections to our financial systems and accounting methods could go a long way towards encouraging us to clean up our act, simply by assigning reasonable value to environmental services that healthy ecosystems provide, rather than seeing earth rape as free and without consequence to humans, ecosystems or other living things.
so oetzi's body was preserved perfectly by by the alpine funeral home director?For those of you that believe we are in an unprecedented period of global warming caused by man, please explain the story of Oetzi the Iceman in relation to this alleged period of unprecedented warming.
Oetzi is the mummy that was discovered in the Italian Alps back in 1991 as the glacial ice he had been buried in ice since he died over 5000 years ago began to recede. When he died over 5000 years ago, the spot where he died was NOT COVERED BY ICE. OVer time the glacial ice overtook his place of death and he became entombed and preserved in ice.
In other words, there was no glacial ice where he died 5000 years ago just like there is no more glacial ice today. The mountain pass he died in was free and clear of permanent ice when he died. So the climate 5000 years ago was similar to the climate today without all the man made CO2 in the air.
Wonder how Obama, Gore, Pelosi and pals would explain that one.