The End of Excess: Is This Crisis Good for America?

[Mango]

I liked this article because in many ways because the author has much foresight. I think that those in college right now or getting ready to graduate are probably reevaluating their career choices to adapt to a changing society. However, I do agree with 30AShopper in the respect that there will always be capitalistic and material driven people. It's human nature. For some, innovation will be inspired for reasons other than materialism and others...they want a better life for themselves and their families. With innovation comes investment and I, for one, feel that eventually another bubble of some sort will come about. Some people living this crisis will forget about the excesses and greed that brought us to this point. There will be frugality for a while borne of necessity.

 

[full time]

I think not. I have had many conversations with other parents who agree with me. There are always exceptions.

That being said, I will admit that when she gets married next summer, our daughter wants a simple wedding and reception, the antithesis of what has been the case in this town for years.

Nearly 9000 posts in less than 4 years - averaging almost 7 a day. Kids are kids - like always. Too much is made that this generation is a problem - their music sucks, it's too loud, they have no respect for authority, blah, blah, blah. Go talk to a few more kids in person without worrying about your next post. You might find that you like them.

 

[Bobskunk]

Insightful

I liked this article because in many ways because the author has much foresight. I think that those in college right now or getting ready to graduate are probably reevaluating their career choices to adapt to a changing society. However, I do agree with 30AShopper in the respect that there will always be capitalistic and material driven people. It's human nature. For some, innovation will be inspired for reasons other than materialism and others...they want a better life for themselves and their families. With innovation comes investment and I, for one, feel that eventually another bubble of some sort will come about. Some people living this crisis will forget about the excesses and greed that brought us to this point. There will be frugality for a while borne of necessity.

Mango, I think that you are correct regarding frugality due to necessity. My wife is probably tired of hearing my mantra, which is "Events do not change people, effort does". I remember everyone flocked to the churches after 9/11, and people were polite for a few days, causing all of the social commentators to pronounce that we had forever changed. I did not believe it, and within a couple of weeks, I witnessed road rage, and other hostile behavior. Further proof that our return to a more simple, spiritual life misfired can be seen by flipping through the television channels at any hour. I began living a frugal life years ago out of necessity, and felt comfortable with it, so I did not change much when it appeared that our ship was coming in. It turned out that our ship is anchored, and not drifting our way anytime soon, but fortunately I have not had to adjust too much.

As for the retrun to excesses, people are pretty myopic when it concerns our financial lives. Just as we never saw the end of an unsustainable real estate boom, many people now see the economy as being permanently ruined.

Thanks for your post. Hopefully, we are short-sighted, and there are better economic times ahead. I am also hopeful that at least some people decide permanently to live within their means, and not focus on possessions.

 

[scooterbug44]

Interesting graph on retail - I would assume this is driven by Wal-mart/Sam's and other big box stores.

And maybe because in those countries you actually have career retail staff. In Europe even "cheap" stores have customer service/personal shopping on the level one would associate with a high-end boutique. You don't browse, you walk in and they bring you items in your size (which they can tell by looking at you).

 

[Susan Horn]

Mango, I think that you are correct regarding frugality due to necessity. My wife is probably tired of hearing my mantra, which is "Events do not change people, effort does". I remember everyone flocked to the churches after 9/11, and people were polite for a few days, causing all of the social commentators to pronounce that we had forever changed. I did not believe it, and within a couple of weeks, I witnessed road rage, and other hostile behavior.

I always assumed that the sudden shift back to the same old same old might have had something to do with the leadership vacuum at the time, and inane exhortations from the White House to shop our way back to happiness.

Also I remember from the very start when the hawks started talking vengeance, whipping everyone into a froth for war, I was saddened to see them manipulate the nation's grief -- the world's grief -- into anger and war mongering rather than leading us in a different way to walk through grief, one that might ultimately have been more healing for us all. So polarizing, so us-or-them ("You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"), a slap in the face of a prime opportunity to bring about unity and cooperation at unprecedented levels.

So maybe my rose colored glasses are a little too pink, maybe that wouldn't have worked any better. I just wish that was the way our leadership had tried to take us, at least at first. To respond automatically with anger and blame when something bad happens, when somebody does somebody wrong... well that's the way my FOO (Family Of Origin) does it, but since I grew up I've learned a new way that works a lot better for me.

 

[Lynnie]

Mango, I think that you are correct regarding frugality due to necessity. My wife is probably tired of hearing my mantra, which is "Events do not change people, effort does". I remember everyone flocked to the churches after 9/11, and people were polite for a few days, causing all of the social commentators to pronounce that we had forever changed. I did not believe it, and within a couple of weeks, I witnessed road rage, and other hostile behavior. Further proof that our return to a more simple, spiritual life misfired can be seen by flipping through the television channels at any hour. I began living a frugal life years ago out of necessity, and felt comfortable with it, so I did not change much when it appeared that our ship was coming in. It turned out that our ship is anchored, and not drifting our way anytime soon, but fortunately I have not had to adjust too much.

As for the retrun to excesses, people are pretty myopic when it concerns our financial lives. Just as we never saw the end of an unsustainable real estate boom, many people now see the economy as being permanently ruined.

Thanks for your post. Hopefully, we are short-sighted, and there are better economic times ahead. I am also hopeful that at least some people decide permanently to live within their means, and not focus on possessions.

Those countries don't have the land mass we have. For instance the IKEA store in Midtown is much larger than the IKEA store in their own country......

 

[Bobskunk]

Wow

Mango, I think that you are correct regarding frugality due to necessity. My wife is probably tired of hearing my mantra, which is "Events do not change people, effort does". I remember everyone flocked to the churches after 9/11, and people were polite for a few days, causing all of the social commentators to pronounce that we had forever changed. I did not believe it, and within a couple of weeks, I witnessed road rage, and other hostile behavior.

I always assumed that the sudden shift back to the same old same old might have had something to do with the leadership vacuum at the time, and inane exhortations from the White House to shop our way back to happiness.

Also I remember from the very start when the hawks started talking vengeance, whipping everyone into a froth for war, I was saddened to see them manipulate the nation's grief -- the world's grief -- into anger and war mongering rather than leading us in a different way to walk through grief, one that might ultimately have been more healing for us all. So polarizing, so us-or-them ("You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"), a slap in the face of a prime opportunity to bring about unity and cooperation at unprecedented levels.

So maybe my rose colored glasses are a little too pink, maybe that wouldn't have worked any better. I just wish that was the way our leadership had tried to take us, at least at first. To respond automatically with anger and blame when something bad happens, when somebody does somebody wrong... well that's the way my FOO (Family Of Origin) does it, but since I grew up I've learned a new way that works a lot better for me.

I am not going to be an apologist for our former President, but must we really blame the materialistic nature of people on him as well? It always comes back to blaming someone for all of our ills. God forbid we sheep ever do any internal analysis. Remember the 80s was considered the decade of greed, and I did not find the nineties to be much different. I used 9/11 as an example of events not changing us, and I surely did not expect the anti-war, anti Bush response. There are 800 other threads where that is the topic. I certainly hope that our very souls are not shaped by whatever exhortations we hear from the person occupying the white house.

"If I wanted to destroy a nation, I would give it too much and I would have it on its knees, miserable, greedy and sick," By the way, Steinbeck did not write this in response to President Bush, despite attempts to credit him with the invention of greed.

Anyway, it was an interesting topic while it lasted.

 

[Susan Horn]

I am not going to be an apologist for our former President, but must we really blame the materialistic nature of people on him as well? It always comes back to blaming someone for all of our ills. God forbid we sheep ever do any internal analysis. Remember the 80s was considered the decade of greed, and I did not find the nineties to be much different. I used 9/11 as an example of events not changing us, and I surely did not expect the anti-war, anti Bush response. There are 800 other threads where that is the topic. I certainly hope that our very souls are not shaped by whatever exhortations we hear from the person occupying the white house.

"If I wanted to destroy a nation, I would give it too much and I would have it on its knees, miserable, greedy and sick," By the way, Steinbeck did not write this in response to President Bush, despite attempts to credit him with the invention of greed.


Anyway, it was an interesting topic while it lasted.

RDM, I respect your views on this and you're right, W didn't invent materialism. I'm just saying, as an eternal idealist and self-avowed utopian dreamer (we have to have a vision to move towards, or we just muddle aimlessly along, right? why not make it a vision we like?) -- I like to think leadership actually matters, and that good leaders can inspire and motivate their followers to rise to their highest capabilities. Sort of like the way a good teacher can bring out any student's best gifts and help them shine their light.

 

[Beach Runner]

Nearly 9000 posts in less than 4 years - averaging almost 7 a day. Kids are kids - like always. Too much is made that this generation is a problem - their music sucks, it's too loud, they have no respect for authority, blah, blah, blah. Go talk to a few more kids in person without worrying about your next post. You might find that you like them.

Inappropriate.

Our only child has been away at college since I joined the board. She and I were so close, and I missed her deeply. So I turned to this message board to relieve some of the pain of being in an empty house when daughter was away and hubby was traveling on business. I have a full-time job and help take care of a mother with Alzheimer's who lives an hour away, plus I do volunteer work. I don't have time for socializing, so I socialize with my virtual friends on SoWal.

 

[Bobskunk]

My Leaders

RDM, I respect your views on this and you're right, W didn't invent materialism. I'm just saying, as an eternal idealist and self-avowed utopian dreamer (we have to have a vision to move towards, or we just muddle aimlessly along, right? why not make it a vision we like?) -- I like to think leadership actually matters, and that good leaders can inspire and motivate their followers to rise to their highest capabilities. Sort of like the way a good teacher can bring out any student's best gifts and help them shine their light.

I have not seen too many elected officials who have inspired or motivated me. In my life, I have had a few of ordinary people who made an extraordinary impact on me. My life's vision does not really take into account whatever craziness is going on in D.C. I do appreciate your being idealistic and hopeful. Despite my lack of confidence in government, I am pretty hopeful about my life in general, and feel blessed to live in this country, warts and all. Also, despite our government, there are a lot of creative, motivated, hard working people who give their best effort every day, and when this recession ends, you won't hear any politician giving them/us credit.

Speaking of creative and talented, I have seen some of your work, and I love the limited amount that I have seen.