The Trouble with Islam

[Bob]

if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation why do you bother?
you don't even know me and yet you've devoted your last 5 posts solely to insulting me. what do you hope to acheive?

mf, I've often found the more verbose one is, the more they are trying to bolster a flawed argument. If insult is to be insinuated by exposure, then your reaction is truly juvenile.

 

[30gAy]

i mean it's not some random mosque in iran now that's calling for jihad and death to america. it's from mosques in every nice suberb of the uk, or the slums of france and the HUGE somali congregations in nashville, or neighborhood mosques in detroit.

In Islam, the central doctrine that calls on believers to combat the enemies of their religion. According to the Qur'an and the Hadith, jihad is a duty that may be fulfilled in four ways: by the heart, the tongue, the hand, or the sword.

Ok, so if there are widespread calls for jihad, (and we would still like some information on this) then it is possible that the mainstream is calling for jihad fulfilled by the heart, or tounge, and not necessarily the sword?

And isn't it easy to see how a call for a verbal or non violent jihad by a majority of muslims could become corrupted (in the minds of non-muslims) by the call from a few for violent jihad?

 

[Allifunn]

I do not claim to be an authority on any of these subjects, I simply meant that the hatered that shines through in these posts are rancid...not the subject within them. I do not believe in the way individuals are treated in MOST countries...ours included.
I also feel that if you are going to understand different cultural nations, you can not lump the entire population into generalizations. I know this is done...but it shows a real lack of humanity.

 

[Bob]

I do not claim to be an authority on any of these subjects, I simply meant that the hatered that shines through in these posts are rancid...not the subject within them. I do not believe in the way individuals are treated in MOST countries...ours included.
I also feel that if you are going to understand different cultural nations, you can not lump the entire population into generalizations. I know this is done...but it shows a real lack of humanity.

you da girl Allifunn.....was that sexist?

 

[Allifunn]

you da girl Allifunn.....was that sexist?

I do not consider it so.....but I tend to be gullible and naive :roll: therefore I can not discern if you are being serious or condescending....

 

[mf]

Ok, so if there are widespread calls for jihad, (and we would still like some information on this) then it is possible that the mainstream is calling for jihad fulfilled by the heart, or tounge, and not necessarily the sword?

And isn't it easy to see how a call for a verbal or non violent jihad by a majority of muslims could become corrupted (in the minds of non-muslims) by the call from a few for violent jihad?

great question! ok..this is just my humble opinion, but if the jihad being called for now were meant to be fulfilled by faithful and peaceful commitment to service it would not be a complicated or difficult thing for moderate muslims to do. they would not be feeling so oppressed. they would not be called "bad muslims". add that issue to the numerous videotapes and letters to congregants asking for violent action and well.......

and, i agree, it is so very easy to see how a few people might engender the wrong opinion for an entire group! especially in a world where people judge that way. think about how you feel about christians? well, all christians aren't like that, but we're only human and sometimes we lump people in together. that kind of prejudice is worrisome.

which is why i think you're trying to be mindful of that. and i agree. it's important to be careful. i think i understand when people are too careful because they don't know enough and don't want to make the wrong assumptions.

unfortunately, that's not what's happening right now. you know, i don't worry about the phelps of the world, even though he's an abhorrent, evil, violent person, because he's in a minority and everyone knows he's a fruitcake!

but there's a tipping point, as there was in nazi germany, when everyday normal people start to buy into this ideology, and you know that many people aren't evil, it's just the cattle mentality. and you have to watch for the tipping point and according to many moderate muslims and watchdog groups we've passed it.

and then there's the issue of race in america. everything in america is attached to race and that's really a form of racism. for instance, i'm married to an immigrant and most of my friends and co-workers just happen to be LEGAL immigrants and political refugees. i myself have been an immigrant. and yet, most of my friends are VEHEMENTLY opposed to illegal immigration. but legal americans support it, because for them it's considered a race issue. they don't understand the negative implications it has for legal immigrants of ALL races. because they don't really know any immigrants, so they don't want to appear insensitive, but in the process..well, they kind of appear racist.

i think the same thing is true for muslims. because you're judging them by race instead of what they do and who they are, many of us are not getting the whole picture.

there's nothing wrong with identifying a problem. it's not an insult to muslims. it's a warning to the fervently fundamentalist would who threaten the rights of moderate muslims and those of us who are not muslim and do not wish to be converted or have people in our society judged under muslim law.

 

[Bob]

I do not consider it so.....but I tend to be gullible and naive :roll: therefore I can not discern if you are being serious or condescending....

Easy now, I'm tired from chasing mf. I was trying to be nice, but obviuosly how can you tell from this afternoons' workout of bs....right, mf???

 

[beachbob]

I also feel that if you are going to understand different cultural nations, you can not lump the entire population into generalizations.

i think sj and mf showed that in some prior posts about christianity, comparing southern baptists to episcapaleans - virtually night and day in many ways. christianity has so many different variations that to that christianity encourages this or that, is all relevant to which sect you are talking about. the same goes for islam.

 

[30A Skunkape]

You all are freaking ridiculous.:roll:

 

[beachbob]

unfortunately, that's not what's happening right now. you know, i don't worry about the phelps of the world, even though he's an abhorrent, evil, violent person, because he's in a minority and everyone knows he's a fruitcake!

phelps, to non-christians, may represent all christians. a fruitcake to you and me, does not make a fruitcake to all. the non-violent muslims may look at a vocal leader in the u.s.a. and think that all americans are like him, especially if they elected him or her as their leader. after seeing much of this repeatedly, they may begin to think that they should be more extreme to fight the evilness. i think that many of the iraquis may be put in the situation of defending their own, just like the south did against the north in the america's "civil war." the south wasn't fighting so much for slavery as they were fighting to keep the north off of their property and out of their towns. if we don't kill them, they are coming to kill us. that sounds familiar.