The US War - Five Years On

[Mango]

I think you meant, "The Guy Who is Smarter and Younger than You"



http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoVwhVt.asp

or "The Guy Who is Smarter and Younger than a Who? :funn:

 

[Bdarg]

Interesting article. My hope is that we can find the qualified person that we need and that will actually accept the job! Of course, it will take more than just one person to solve this problem ~ an administration that would listen would be a start.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041001776.html?hpid=topnews

Excellent article Gypsea. (take note 6thGen, it is an article from a well respected newspaper loaded with insight, facts and information, i.e. not an Op-Ed).

In reading the article it does make me wonder whether the Whitehouse may be looking for more of a Scapegoat than a Czar; they need someone that is credible but willing to take the position and then fall on his sword for the Bush/Chaney/Neo-Con cause. Apparently they are not finding too many Generals willing to go for that, although it does make me think that we do need somebody, anybody, but Bush at the helm.

 

[Bdarg]

Well, great to hear from you all, and I'm glad the resident queen is back. I've been sorta busy today, and I won't be anywhere near a computer tomorrow, but I promise, Honest Injun, I'll get to this ASAP. I know each and every bloody one of you want a response from me, so I promise, like a one legged man in an ass kicking competition, I'll get to you if you are patient. In the meantime, I've posted a webpage for an expert on the tolerance on Muslims. And you can peruse the thread where I admit I'm wrong about something. Regards,
The Guy That Is Smarter And Younger Than You

http://www.danielpipes.org/

First of all! Way to Go 30-gAy!!!! Knock him down point for point. Excellent!!

:clap_1: I always wanted to be a cheerleader!:clap_1: :clap_1:

Now,


Thanks for the heads up. Do not flatter yourself 6thGin, as you might have noticed, had you been paying attention, no one really takes you seriously.

Meanwhile, while you are gone, the rest of us will enjoy the opportunity to engage in some intelligent discourse. Without being bogged down by the functionally illiterate, we should learn a lot from the insight of those thoughtful, well traveled, well read and well written individuals who shall remain.

A few points to ponder while you are on your hiatus:
? Opinion does NOT Equal Fact.
? A belief is, by definition, not a fact-based understanding, nor is it an arguable point.
? Dragging up, half-baked, propagandistic, self-published ?articles? (i.e. what the rest of us would call an Op-ed piece) from Neo-Conservative websites is not proof of anything other than your abundant lack of, or incapacity to perform, critical thinking.
? A hayseed traveling to the county fair once a year does not make said hayseed well traveled.

I am with you Chickpea. I am all for ignoring the ignorant, and with luck he will ignore us. Now it looks as though we have a one day head start to a better understanding to one of the largest problems of our time.

 

[Rita]

omg bdarg!! You put a huge smile on my face this morning!

and how clever --- 6thgin! That might answer some questions ......

.

 

[30gAy]

I made the point that you have no idea who the Iraqi citizens blame for the problems in the country. .

Oops, looks like your point is getting a bit shaky??


http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraqpoll/poll6/flash.htm

?Iraqis have differing views of the roles played by outside countries in the conflict. Overall, the United States has the worst image- with 77% of respondents saying they are playing a negative role.?

I would have thought that most people could have understood the logic of this conclusion without having to be beaten over the head with evidence.

 

[30gAy]

Before I am accused of ?moving the goalposts? lets cover all the bases and just look at violence within Iraq.

From ABCNews http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/1033aIraqpoll.pdf


38. Who do you blame the most for the violence that is occurring in the country?
3/5/07
All Sunni Shiite Kurdish
US/coalition forces 31 38 34 8
President Bush 9 12 8 2
Iraqi government 8 13 5 4
Iraqi army 1 3 * 2
Iraqi police 1 2 0 1
Sunni militias/leaders 5 * 8 6
Shiite militias/leaders 6 9 1 14
Sectarian disputes 8 5 7 13
Al Qaeda/foreign jihadis 18 2 28 27
Common criminals 6 3 7 8


The US clearly gets the biggest share of the blame. (Surprised?). When one filters the Kurds out of the poll numbers, (which is within context, since no one in this discussion has advocating being worried about the long term consequences of Bush?s policies towards them) the numbers are even more stark.

 

[30gAy]

I know each and every bloody one of you want a response from me, so I promise, like a one legged man in an ass kicking competition, I'll get to you if you are patient.

Why do I have the distinct feeling this is going to look more like that scene from Monty Python.....

"I can still fight, ...Tis merely an inability to think logically...."

 

[Bdarg]

I know several of you have spent time or lived in the Middle East. Based on your experiences, what in your opinion is of the philosophical disconnect between the Middle East and the west that keeps us at such odds? How can we as westerners better understand the collective mind of the Middle East?

 

[Uncle Timmy]

I know several of you have spent time or lived in the Middle East. Based on your experiences, what in your opinion is of the philosophical disconnect between the Middle East and the west that keeps us at such odds? How can we as westerners better understand the collective mind of the Middle East?

In my opinion, it isn't a philosophical disconnect between the Middle East and the west that is keeping us at odds.

It is 60 year history of aggressive western involvement in the region which is at the root of animosity. They live under repressive regimes which we support (for our own interests) and they hate us for that. We overthrow their democratically elected governments (google Mossadeq) when it suits our needs and they don't like that much either. After 60 years, the issues become extremely complex and interwoven, but that is the root of the problem here.

There isn't a lot of hostility between say Indonesia (the largest muslim country in population) and the US because there is no history of unwanted involvement there. There isn't a lot of hostitilty between Turkey, again muslim, for the same reason.

That is why I have suggested a policy shift to extricate ourselves (as much as is possible) from the region.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Pentagon report contains major criticisms of administration.

?Late on the Wednesday afternoon before the Thanksgiving holiday, the US Defense Department confirmed the contents of a report by the Defense Science Board that is highly critical of the administration's efforts in the war on terror and in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The report had been originally placed on the DSB's website in early November.?

'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.' ​

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6577524/

Also from the article:

Saudi Arabia cited as example
The report cited as an example Saudi Arabia, a longtime U.S. ally and birthplace of Osama bin Laden. A large majority of Saudis believe the United States is trying to weaken Islam, the report said.
?In other words, Americans have become the enemy,? it said. ?It is noteworthy that opinion is (strongest) against America in precisely those places ruled by what Muslims call ?apostates? and tyrants ? the tyrants we support. This should give us pause.?

I?m guessing that the Pentagon report is asking us to ?give pause? in light of this historical example? [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution[/ame]



Again, I think this is more strong evidence in support of a MAJOR policy shift in the region.