Torture in Iraq

5 Burqas $36

1 digital camera $129

Photographing five burqa covered women with one digital camera? Pointless.

:rofl: :funn:

OK, many that we are fighting in Iraq are animals, and a greater understanding of their art and culture won't stop them from attacking us.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232381,00.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4808453.html

Americans are animals, and a greater understanding of their art and culture won't stop them from attacking their children.

Miss Kitty...I look forward to getting to meet you some day!! You invariably crack me up with your clever one liners.

It does help to laugh, doesn't it? :funn: What cha' doing in October?

So I saw in this morning's news that the US is sending a fleet of aircraft carriers and battle ships to the Persian Gulf to show our arms against Iran, who is holding 5-6 Americans. Are we getting ready to start another war, this time with Iran?

I didn't check out the torture link, but I have seen a vid of one of the beheadings and must say it is the sickest thing I've ever witnessed. There are four beheading vids floating on the net which I have seen, and I don't think I could stomach the other three.

None of my thoughts on a potential war w/ Iran would make it past the filter.

The videos of torture, executions, etc. are as disgusting as the people who enjoy watching them and exposing others to them.

None of my thoughts on a potential war w/ Iran would make it past the filter.

The videos of torture, executions, etc. are as disgusting as the people who enjoy watching them and exposing others to them.

I put a disclaimer in there, and I think Americans need to be sick to their stomach to fight a war. I think the animals should be exposed for what they are. We continue to prove that we are weak and don't have the stomach for war. I am not in favor of a war with Iran, per se, but we already are at war with them in Iraq. A better nudge to the populace that is sick of the mullahs would be nice, as would a virtual economic blockade.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232381,00.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4808453.html

Americans are animals, and a greater understanding of their art and culture won't stop them from attacking their children.

Thanks for bringing that up. What is our ruling authority's policy towards such behavior?

Now what does the Koran say about it? Thanks in advance.

The videos of torture, executions, etc. are as disgusting as the people who enjoy watching them and exposing others to them.

While the videos are disturbing, I think it is important for us to see what is happening -- the ease with which they slaughter people without appearing to have a second thought is very disturbing. If more people were exposed to what is happening, it would certainly shake things up. Most of us would rather bury our heads, deep into the sand on the beach, but maybe we shouldn't.

I think most Americans would probably agree with your statement, but I don't. Of course, I never claimed to be like most Americans. ;-) You could even relate this thought of the videos to people seeing a video of what takes place when a cow goes to the slaughter house. Some people would would get excited about the death, while others would moan about how disturbing it is. The reality of it is that if we saw the videos from the cow in the field eating grass all the way through to it being eaten at a restaurant, most of us would become vegetarians. I don't know how to compare that to the videos of the beheadings, but I know that if we watched them, we wouldn't do things the same way as we are today.

I don't need to see a graphic video to know that war is horrible or that what some people will do to others is absolutely horrific. Often a picture or video is far better at getting across this brutality, but the fact that it is viscerally enjoyed is what disturbs me.

I also think it is incredibly unfair & naive to assume that kind of behavior is limited to Iraqis. This behavior is very human, no matter how much we would like to dismiss them as animals and pretend that our culture is any different.

Killing a cow (or any other animal) for food is a far cry from war, but I get the point that in either case noone wants to see exactly how the sausage is made.

I disagree with you SJ about exposing these tortures, beheadings etc. to the mass public. Most intelligent adults watch the news, have access to the internet, and other mediums if they need to see it and can handle it.
We all know what goes in the world.

Hell, I watched my friends die 9/11 live on television, and I resented the media constantly showing the same scene over and over again.

If I choose to watch it, that's my decision, but I don't need anyone sticking it in my face to make a point, either on television or on a message board.

I also think it is incredibly unfair & naive to assume that kind of behavior is limited to Iraqis. This behavior is very human, no matter how much we would like to dismiss them as animals and pretend that our culture is any different.

I disagree. If it is so human, why isn't it more widespread amongst developed nations? Name one country founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs that even begins to condone it.

Thanks for bringing that up. What is our ruling authority's policy towards such behavior?

Now what does the Koran say about it? Thanks in advance.

Again , what is your point? I do not understand your question regarding ruling authority's policy nor the Quran's input on microwaving unwanted children. I would guess a fanatical Muslim could find a passage in the Quran that would justify it much as a fanatical Christian could quote scripture justifying the same.

You miss my point that finding a disturbing image, posting it, and then insinuating or leading to a condemnation of a culture or religion ( as you are attemting with your initial post) is very easy to do.
A muslim can pull up sick things that happen in America and draw the same conclusions I believe you have about them.

Again , what is your point? I do not understand your question regarding ruling authority's policy nor the Quran's input on microwaving unwanted children. I would guess a fanatical Muslim could find a passage in the Quran that would justify it much as a fanatical Christian could quote scripture justifying the same.

Let me know when you find that.

You miss my point that finding a disturbing image, posting it, and then insinuating or leading to a condemnation of a culture or religion ( as you are attemting with your initial post) is very easy to do.
A muslim can pull up sick things that happen in America and draw the same conclusions I believe you have about them.

My point is that it is accepted there, while it is not here. My point is that I wish they'd come and join us in the 3rd millennium. Hell, I'd settle for the 2nd.

By the way, you still have not answered my question that you posed to me - what should happen to people's property when they die?

Do you want an example of Americans publicy condoning mental or physical torture or of us ignoring it or pretending it doesn't happen?

Thousands of people have been tortured, killed, and even beheaded in the course of Judeo-Christian beliefs, so don't try to make it about their religion.
Not only was Iraq a non-religious dictatorship because Saddam didn't want religious leaders thwarting him, Islam is actually a religion that preaches peace and tolerance.

Do you want an example of Americans publicy condoning mental or physical torture or of us ignoring it or pretending it doesn't happen?

I want choice C.

Thousands of people have been tortured, killed, and even beheaded in the course of Judeo-Christian beliefs, so don't try to make it about their religion.

Islam is actually a religion that preaches peace and tolerance.

Aren't much of a history or religion buff, eh scooterbug?

I want choice C.

Aren't much of a history or religion buff, eh scooterbug?

There were only 2 options listed.

There is currently a debate going on in this country as to exactly what constitutes torture and what are just effective methods for getting information. Is it okay if we let other people torture for us, because their laws are less rigid etc.

Actually I am. Heard of the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition etc. ?

Islam preaches tolerance (as Christians are also "people of the book"), recognizes Jesus as a prophet, and condems the murder of innocents, especially women and children.

These people are not accurate representatives of their religion, they are fanatics, who interpret and ignore as they wish.

Let me know when you find that.



My point is that it is accepted there, while it is not here. My point is that I wish they'd come and join us in the 3rd millennium. Hell, I'd settle for the 2nd.

By the way, you still have not answered my question that you posed to me - what should happen to people's property when they die?

I too wish much of the Muslim world would join this century. It is however a different world from us. Respect for life and value of life is much less. For example in Iraq , when your town has been bombed to the ground, you have no electricity or water, and relatives have been killed ' things tend to resort to a more primitive state. I can understand this.

What happened on 9/11 is much smaller by pure body count than what has happened to Iraqis. Look at our response. We attacked to countries, imprisoned hundreds, revoked civil liberties, wiretapped our population , approved torture , and disregarded the Geneva convention. I would guess Iraqis would label their sick killing as some sort of freedom fight against an evil enemy, a life or death conflict with the future of their country at stake-- sound familiar

There were only 2 options listed.

No sh**. When the only two options are condoning torture or ignoring it, I want a choice C.

Actually I am. Heard of the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition etc. ?

When was that and where is it condoned in The Bible? Thanks in advance.

Islam preaches tolerance (as Christians are also "people of the book"), recognizes Jesus as a prophet, and condems the murder of innocents, especially women and children.

These people are not accurate representatives of their religion, they are fanatics, who interpret and ignore as they wish.

I know that. Islam also frequently contradicts itself, especially in regard to the people of the book stuff. The problem with leaving fanatics to interpret the Koran as they wish is that the Koran specifically encourages the things they do, whereas The Bible and The Torah do not. If you don't believe me, ask a Muslim. Then asked them why there aren't more that share their faith that will come out against it.

When was that and where is it condoned in The Bible? Thanks in advance.

They were condoned in the Bible as much as the things you cited are condoned by the Koran.

Crusades - Church leaders tell Christians to kill infidels and their sins will be forgiven and they will go to heaven.

Current Middle East - Religious leaders tell Muslims to kil infidels and their sins will be forgiven and they will go to heaven.

They were condoned in the Bible as much as the things you cited are condoned by the Koran.

Crusades - Church leaders tell Christians to kill infidels and their sins will be forgiven and they will go to heaven.

Current Middle East - Religious leaders tell Muslims to kil infidels and their sins will be forgiven and they will go to heaven.

Please site scripture. I did so in the "Problem with Islam" thread. Also, an example within the past 500 years would be nice.

No sh**. The problem with leaving fanatics to interpret the Koran as they wish is that the Koran specifically encourages the things they do, whereas The Bible and The Torah do not. If you don't believe me, ask a Muslim. Then asked them why there aren't more that share their faith that will come out against it.

Although you and I disagree on most things , you cannot be serious in your assertion that The Quran encourages fanatics anymore than the Bible or Torah. Come on. In the current environment it may seem like that to you but you are sharp enough to look at the big picture. Please don't make me list all the examples of Christian and Jewish fanatical interpretation of their Books.

I too wish much of the Muslim world would join this century. It is however a different world from us. Respect for life and value of life is much less. For example in Iraq , when your town has been bombed to the ground, you have no electricity or water, and relatives have been killed ' things tend to resort to a more primitive state. I can understand this.

What happened on 9/11 is much smaller by pure body count than what has happened to Iraqis. Look at our response. We attacked to countries, imprisoned hundreds, revoked civil liberties, wiretapped our population , approved torture , and disregarded the Geneva convention. I would guess Iraqis would label their sick killing as some sort of freedom fight against an evil enemy, a life or death conflict with the future of their country at stake-- sound familiar

I have some reading to catch up on, but I'll show the progress being documented. Also, who is doing the bombing? This feels like deja vu. Where was it again where we disregarded the Geneva convention?

Although you and I disagree on most things , you cannot be serious in your assertion that The Quran encourages fanatics anymore than the Bible or Torah. Come on. In the current environment it may seem like that to you but you are sharp enough to look at the big picture. Please don't make me list all the examples of Christian and Jewish fanatical interpretation of their Books.

Again, site scripture. I've sited the Koran on the other thread if you need to look it up. I agree that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, but they aren't very vocal about the rest that are highjacking thier religion and turning it into a death cult.