Welcome to America

[Lake View Too]

LVT
I don't think I can respond without coming off aggressive but I'll try

Trump, be nature, is a sore loser but does that rise him to being a mastermind of Jan 6th? I can't make that leap with you, if he did they would have found evidence to your point.

I imagine you are talking about the conversation with the new Ukrainian president. Please post the transcript backing up your claim of extortion and meddling if you would like, should be easy to find.

I don't think your side will have any luck with claims of espionage and sedition but for your sake lets just give it time.

As far as women reproductive rights the Supreme Court corrected a past wrong by following the constitution, when you take the emotion out this one is pretty clear that it is a state matter.

The education system needs to be revamped (as do a lot of our systems), the issue is when teachers push their personal views on children.

As someone that is very pro 2nd amendment, I agree in common sense gun laws but what those are I don't know.

The tax laws are a little different because they aren't really a political issue as much as a have -vs- have not issue. I can promise you that as long as the rich make the laws these will not change regardless of party.

I appreciate your comments
Thank you

You seemed to have not watched the impeachment trial . Was it not televised on Fox TV? Hahaha. Willful ignorance is so cute. If you had, you would have noticed that there was ample proof that Don did withhold the military aid to Ukraine. There was no disputing that. There was ample evidence he pressured the President of Ukraine to meddle in our election process. There was no disputing that. And he would have been convicted except that the senate was controlled by Right Wing GQP who are historically known to be gutless sycophants with no moral backbone.

 

[Lou Deman]

Yes I agree that words have consequences and it is unfortunate that we are so divided by politics. I do generalize and that might be the nature of social media or it just a mistake in communication. However there is no left or right human being. To use these terms is an attack on another persons view of politics or social order. So let’s be honest about that and dismiss these terms first and maybe neither side will feel attacked. I admit I have doubt that you will be able to do that because of what I have read in your previous posts. For example you are not really wanting to know what the “left” believes or thinks. You just want to make your points. I get it but that is not a good platform to have a decent conversation. For example you attacked Biden for causing the problems at the border. You know that is not true. The conversation should be what do we do about illegal immigration. To me it seems simple. Change our system. We need workers. We need to have control at the border. Why do you think we are not having these common sense discussions?

Mputnal
Thanks for the reply
I don't know if I would say I attack Biden but his admin was handed an improving border and they have dropped the ball. As someone who works with immigrants everyday they are very aware of Bidens policies and how easy it is to cross the border.

Lets go into just the immigration for a second. I am not sure if you understand how the typical immigrant lives their life. For the sake of these comments I will assume you do not (but I may be wrong). They come here to work, a quality guy can make $1k/ week working construction. They keep about $300/wk to live on and send the rest home. That same worker mays $100/wk in Mexico so them working here is insanely lucrative for them. Lets keep the numbers simple, lets say a company has 10 amigos that work for them, lets say these 10 guys send $500/wk home. Just on those 10 guys (500/week x 50 weeks = $25k/year x 10 guys = $250,000/year from those 10 guys) this math is on the lite side. Take that and multiple it times whatever percentage of illegals are doing this and I would say America has an issue that needs to be discussed.
Now back to the point
We have a young carpenter, great guy, wonderful human being. He hasn't seen his wife, kids, parents, or anyone in the 6 years he's been here. He went back to Mexico to get his wife and kids to bring them back because he said everyone knows now is the time to do it. This kid has no political axe he just knows what he knows about getting his family across the border.
I see this as a failure on this administrations part.
I hope common sense talks about immigration are happening but nothing has changed in the 25 years I've been paying attention to it. I would love to see these people have some kind of path towards becoming American because they are good people that just want to be American.
Just my opinion

Thoughts?

Side note: I do care what polite people of either side think I just get fired up when it feels like I am being personally attacked. As far as the personal attacks I would rather just take it behind the woodshed and figure it out the old-school way. I will try to do better

 

[mputnal]

Mputnal
Thanks for the reply
I don't know if I would say I attack Biden but his admin was handed an improving border and they have dropped the ball. As someone who works with immigrants everyday they are very aware of Bidens policies and how easy it is to cross the border.

Lets go into just the immigration for a second. I am not sure if you understand how the typical immigrant lives their life. For the sake of these comments I will assume you do not (but I may be wrong). They come here to work, a quality guy can make $1k/ week working construction. They keep about $300/wk to live on and send the rest home. That same worker mays $100/wk in Mexico so them working here is insanely lucrative for them. Lets keep the numbers simple, lets say a company has 10 amigos that work for them, lets say these 10 guys send $500/wk home. Just on those 10 guys (500/week x 50 weeks = $25k/year x 10 guys = $250,000/year from those 10 guys) this math is on the lite side. Take that and multiple it times whatever percentage of illegals are doing this and I would say America has an issue that needs to be discussed.
Now back to the point
We have a young carpenter, great guy, wonderful human being. He hasn't seen his wife, kids, parents, or anyone in the 6 years he's been here. He went back to Mexico to get his wife and kids to bring them back because he said everyone knows now is the time to do it. This kid has no political axe he just knows what he knows about getting his family across the border.
I see this as a failure on this administrations part.
I hope common sense talks about immigration are happening but nothing has changed in the 25 years I've been paying attention to it. I would love to see these people have some kind of path towards becoming American because they are good people that just want to be American.
Just my opinion

Thoughts?

Side note: I do care what polite people of either side think I just get fired up when it feels like I am being personally attacked. As far as the personal attacks I would rather just take it behind the woodshed and figure it out the old-school way. I will try to do better

Where I grew up we did not need a wood shed

This is what it sounds like you are saying about immigration policy. If you are willing to come here and work as a carpenter for my company for 6 years you are a good and honest person even though I know you are sending money back to your family. Now about your family that you have not seen in 6 years we don't want them here even though our leftist President says come on over. You go on to say that this is been going on for 25 years until Trump builds a wall with our tax dollars even though he said Mexico would pay for it. Do you see the hypocrisy? Why not use our tax dollars to do what you say and change the system? Do you think the wall was worth all the money spent?

 

[Lou Deman]

"Trump, be nature, is a sore loser but does that rise him to being a mastermind of Jan 6th? I can't make that leap with you, if he did they would have found evidence to your point." That is still being worked on as we speak. As the leaders of the oath keepers start to get convicted and sentenced, more information pertaining to Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Rudy Guilianni and Donld Trump will come to light. But, just morally, don't you think storming the Capitol and trying to stop the peaceful transition of power is kind of "unconstitutional". Trump will possibly wiggle out of it, legally, just like a mafia don does. I think it more likely that he is in bigger legal jeopardy about trying to change election results in Georgia. His henchmen are not ready to do ten years without squealing. As to the documents he stole. They have proof, by Donald's own words, that he had the documents (which is a felony, regardless of whether they were "de-classified") and they have him on obstruction. You know as well as I do, that he will be prosecuted and convicted. It's documented theft of government property. Only the severity of the charges that might stem from that will be revealed after the damage assessment is done. Last poll I heard was that about 55% of the country thinks he should be prosecuted. But, you said yourself, you just wanted to "uphold the constitution, as much as possible." Do you want the Constitution enforced to the letter of the law in this particular investigation?
You said you wanted fair tax laws. Are the current tax laws fair? They were passed by "fiscally responsible Republicans"., same fiscally responsible Republicans that caused the economic collapse of 2008. The distribution of wealth steadily increasing toward the 2% is what causes the middle class to lose the ability to buy products and services that keeps the whole economy going. See Bush Tax Cuts, Banking de-regulation, and the 2008 economic collapse. It's a little more complicated than the "haves and the have-nots."
Gun control: please educate me about Right wing efforts to pass common sense gun control laws... hahaha.

LVT
I can see your trying so I will do the same
Let me start with your 2nd point as it is a shorter answer

As I stated earlier tax laws are not as politically driven as those that make policy. The current laws were written by those that have money and that bond is way tighter to them then there political ideology. I can't remember the exact saying but it is something like 'until the lion learns to write then the hunter will always be portrayed as the good guy'. The same for tax law, as long as the rich are making the rules the rules will always help the rich. I do not think the current tax laws are fair, I would rather see everyone pay 10% of their income. 10% from Jeff Bezos and 10% from the waitress at the Waffle House, that is 'fair'. Now if you want to argue 'Just' thats a different argument. I do not think people with money mind paying to make the money they do but its the people in the middle that always get squeezed the most (and thats not fair). I do not think saying Repubs caused the 2008 crash is right as it was definitely banks giving loans to people who couldn't afford them.

Your last comment is odd to me, you want me to educate you abouts the rights efforts to pass common sense gun laws like I speak for everyone on the right. I will say this, they are just as helpful as the lefts. Neither side has put out a 'common sense' approach to gun laws. I am 100% for whatever restrictions are needed as long as they do not infringe on my right to protect anyone, including you, if the case arose. This is a tough one that I hope gets settled because I love my kids and I know people who have lost kids feel the same way.

Morally I have no problem with anyone going to or inside the capital. Anyone that destroyed anything, hurt a cop, or tried to get in the way of governments work should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That should sum up the people on the Jan 6th thing from my point of view.

I do not think Trump will be in any trouble for Jan 6th because he would have had to have had intent. I have not heard or seen anything that leads me to think Trump thought they were going to be violent. I just don't think he will be convicted of anything but bad judgement

If Trump declassified the info, which he had every right to do while he was still president then he won't have any issues in this matter. Personally I think it was dumb to have them but I don't think anyone thinks Trump packed his own boxes. He should have just given everything back once he knew he was in possession of any of it. I don't see his even being prosecuted for this in any kind of a real manner.

It doesn't matter if 99% of the people want his prosecuted thats not how it works in our republic.

I will throw out a very blanket statement, I think anyone that breaks the law should be dealt with as the law sees fit, as long as the punishment is the same for everyone.

 

[Lou Deman]

Where I grew up we did not need a wood shed

This is what it sounds like you are saying about immigration policy. If you are willing to come here and work as a carpenter for my company for 6 years you are a good and honest person even though I know you are sending money back to your family. Now about your family that you have not seen in 6 years we don't want them here even though our leftist President says come on over. You go on to say that this is been going on for 25 years until Trump builds a wall with our tax dollars even though he said Mexico would pay for it. Do you see the hypocrisy? Why not use our tax dollars to do what you say and change the system? Do you think the wall was worth all the money spent?

Believe me you always need a woodshed, going behind the woodshed would fix a lot of the issues we have as a country.

How did you take what I said and mess it up that bad?
There is no way you think I feel this way and you know it

I 100% think we need a wall on both borders the whole way across the country. First you secure the border then you implement whatever policy we can agree on. Why is there a fence around the White House? I don't care who pays for the wall as long as it gets built, you do know this administration has started to fill in the gaps in the wall right?

 

[Matt J]

Lou,

You're not working side by side with illegals; you are in fact exploiting them to profit by avoiding taxes, insurance and basic labor regulations. You are just this side of a slave owner and I'm not mincing my words because this is what it is.

You use a young man wanting to better his family's life like it's an arbitrary mundane story. What he is doing violates not only the law but what you have posted time and time here that you are against and yet you're not doing your part as a licensed contractor in Florida and reporting this crime. Why not? I assume he works for you cheap and the cost savings go to your wallet.

You are just a vile and disgusting human being who uses his own labor abuses as examples for political hyperbole. Look in a mirror and think about this.

 

[Matt J]

Oh Happy Labor Day everybody!

 

[Lou Deman]

You seemed to have not watched the impeachment trial . Was it not televised on Fox TV? Hahaha. Willful ignorance is so cute. If you had, you would have noticed that there was ample proof that Don did withhold the military aid to Ukraine. There was no disputing that. There was ample evidence he pressured the President of Ukraine to meddle in our election process. There was no disputing that. And he would have been convicted except that the senate was controlled by Right Wing GQP who are historically known to be gutless sycophants with no moral backbone.

Lets get specific, are you talking about withholding aide or are you talking about a quid pro quo?

 

[Lou Deman]

Lou,

You're not working side by side with illegals; you are in fact exploiting them to profit by avoiding taxes, insurance and basic labor regulations. You are just this side of a slave owner and I'm not mincing my words because this is what it is.

You use a young man wanting to better his family's life like it's an arbitrary mundane story. What he is doing violates not only the law but what you have posted time and time here that you are against and yet you're not doing your part as a licensed contractor in Florida and reporting this crime. Why not? I assume he works for you cheap and the cost savings go to your wallet.

You are just a vile and disgusting human being who uses his own labor abuses as examples for political hyperbole. Look in a mirror and think about this.

Matt
Have you ever been right?
You have no idea what you are talking about at all yet again
I work side by side with my workers
I do not exploit anyone as they have to have workmens comp and general liability insurance to work for me. A check gets written from my company to theirs every week.
What basic labor regulations am I not following

I have helped more foreigners then you have ever met. If I have committed a crime please call me in
Heres my info
Lou Deman owner of Deman Construction LLC
CGC 1261315
5365 East County Highway 30A suite 106
Santa Rosa Beach Florida 32459

Let me know if you need anything else
The kids in question makes great money (I'll bet he makes more then you)

Let me know when you would like to meet up and discuss whatever you need clarification of

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

You are a clown

 

[mputnal]

Lou, I wish it were not true but you are proving your hypocrisy with every post. I sincerely wish we could have a civil conversation but it sounds like you prefer the "woodshed" approach to politics. If we do not find our civility on both sides I suspect you will be right and there will be chaos. I also think Matt is right and you can not have it both ways. I would love the opportunity to have civil and decent conversations but I really do not think you want that. Maybe go thrash something behind the woodshed and get that out of your system and try again because I will always have hope for common sense.

I think we have technology and the potential for bipartisan policy to help those problems at the border. I do not happen to believe a wall will fix the problem short or long term and I certainly do no want my tax dollars going toward an effective symbol of American stupidity. You can still go over and under a wall. Yes I know trump created a large budget for the wall and it must be used to "fill in the gaps" but I hope when that money is spent no more of my tax dollars will go toward a wall. I know building walls is your specialty but it is not mine