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waterst1

Beach Lover
Dec 24, 2006
82
14
Great point Shelly, 'W' sure did that.
I wish he had given me a Get Out Of Jail Free Card so I could dump some of my investment real estate at 50 cents on the dollar...
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Great point Shelly, 'W' sure did that.
I wish he had given me a Get Out Of Jail Free Card so I could dump some of my investment real estate at 50 cents on the dollar...

It ain't anywhere near being over yet....who knows what other goodies they'll give away at the taxpayers' expense.


.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
The big surprise I learned last week from a real estate friend is that the difference in the loan amount vs. the amount of the short sale is considered by the IRS a short term capital gain so the seller gets hit with gains taxes when the lender "eats" the loss. :sosad:

However, the difference between the loan amount vs the amount of the sale, has to be forgiven by the lender, in order for the IRS to tax it as short term gains. I have yet to hear of one lender in this area forgiving the difference. Typically, the difference is still tied into the original loan, and the seller continues to pay the interest on the new lower amount of the loan. The sale of the property goes to reduce the loan amount.

If you haven't already learned, the IRS sux. If we could eliminate the IRS, half of the problem would be solved, and we could reduce Federal spending greatly.
 

waterst1

Beach Lover
Dec 24, 2006
82
14
We agree on the IRS...

I had assumed some of the lenders were buying down some of the loans. Your information is interesting and disappointing.:sosad:
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
However, the difference between the loan amount vs the amount of the sale, has to be forgiven by the lender, in order for the IRS to tax it as short term gains. I have yet to hear of one lender in this area forgiving the difference. Typically, the difference is still tied into the original loan, and the seller continues to pay the interest on the new lower amount of the loan. The sale of the property goes to reduce the loan amount.

If you haven't already learned, the IRS sux. If we could eliminate the IRS, half of the problem would be solved, and we could reduce Federal spending greatly.

Let me get this straight....a person has a condo that has a $450,000 mortgage @ 6.50% fixed with 26 years remaining; they can only sell it for $350,000. So they sell the property, but retain the loan. They apply the $329,000 (net of the 6% Realtor's commission) to the original loan, and continue paying $121,000 @ 6.50% for the next 26 years. I imagine that will bring the monthly nut down to a more reasonable payment--but then what collateral does the bank have to back the loan? :dunno:

And does the bank sell the property? Or does the loan-ower sell the property?

Or am I missing something?

Or do I need another JB on the rocks?

.


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elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
Let me get this straight....a person has a condo that has a $450,000 mortgage @ 6.50% fixed with 26 years remaining; they can only sell it for $350,000. So they sell the property, but retain the loan. They apply the $329,000 (net of the 6% Realtor's commission) to the original loan, and continue paying $121,000 @ 6.50% for the next 26 years. I imagine that will bring the monthly nut down to a more reasonable payment--but then what collateral does the bank have to back the loan? :dunno:

And does the bank sell the property? Or does the loan-ower sell the property?

Or am I missing something?

Or do I need another JB on the rocks?

.


.
Under the above scenario what collateral does the bank have before the short sale anyway? A $450,000 mortgage on what would net $329,000. Some people would carry the excess to save their credit and live up to an agreement. Personally it wouldn't be enough for me but I am a schlub.
 

elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
Under the above scenario what collateral does the bank have before the short sale anyway? A $450,000 mortgage on what would net $329,000. Some people would carry the excess to save their credit and live up to an agreement. Personally it wouldn't be enough for me but I am a schlub.
Please disregard. I didn't read the quote Shelly was referencing well enough and have spouted off nonsense in this case.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
Let me get this straight....a person has a condo that has a $450,000 mortgage @ 6.50% fixed with 26 years remaining; they can only sell it for $350,000. So they sell the property, but retain the loan. They apply the $329,000 (net of the 6% Realtor's commission) to the original loan, and continue paying $121,000 @ 6.50% for the next 26 years. I imagine that will bring the monthly nut down to a more reasonable payment--but then what collateral does the bank have to back the loan? :dunno:

And does the bank sell the property? Or does the loan-ower sell the property?

Or am I missing something?

Or do I need another JB on the rocks?

.


.
Shelly, I don't think you are missing it. There is no collateral of property, and depending on the amount still owed, some will walk away, but they will suffer bad credit, plus a huge IRS monster knocking on the door. In most cases, it may be easier to avoid the IRS monster and pay the reduced interest. Remember that in many cases, the now seller, had 10% down, so that would knock off another $50K if the original note was $450K, which now makes that payment somewhere around $450 per month, rather than the $3400 per month they were paying (including tax and insurance).

Now, let's say this was an investment property, and compare the above $450 per month payment to the bank on property which you no longer own, to the payment of short term capital gains on the $71,000 ($121,000 less the $50K down payment). Let's throw the short seller into the 20% tax category. $71,000 x .20 = 14,200. Now remember that tax payment comes due within one year, and will need to be thrown into your quarterly payments to the IRS, or there may be additional penalties. So on one hand, you can pay the IRS $14,200 this year, or you can keep your credit history somewhat intact and pay the bank over time, and this year, pay only about $5,400, spread out over 12 months. Which lump would you take?

As I understand it, the bank keeps the loan unchanged, except for the principle owed, and that reduces new loan origination costs, and also probably because the short seller probably wouldn't qualify for a new loan.

In most cases, the seller would be the one who sells the property, but if it is a short sale, where they couldn't foot the difference to the lender, they would need permission from the lender to go through with a short sell, and this usually requires 90 late on payments and proof of inability to be able to pay, and lack of assets.

Now that I left everyone in a heavy fog, go drink another J&B.
 
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waterst1

Beach Lover
Dec 24, 2006
82
14
Smiling JOe you are so right about this scenario. I think I would rather pay the IRS as much as I hate to say that. I have a situation where a 50% partner hasn't paid their part in 2 years and I have carried it. Instead of waiting until anything gets past due, I went ahead and spoke with the banker to get permission for a short sale and they told me to proceed. I think it is good to do that before things turn sour instead of waiting...but I guess it depends on the banker...
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Smiling JOe you are so right about this scenario. I think I would rather pay the IRS as much as I hate to say that. I have a situation where a 50% partner hasn't paid their part in 2 years and I have carried it. Instead of waiting until anything gets past due, I went ahead and spoke with the banker to get permission for a short sale and they told me to proceed. I think it is good to do that before things turn sour instead of waiting...but I guess it depends on the banker...

And what are you going to do about your 50% partner?

.
 
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