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Little Fish

Beach Lover
Oct 9, 2007
134
7
Atlanta, GA
Not Dead Yet:

You forgot to mention... The falling dollar will help our trade deficit, as exports appear more attractive to foreign consumers, while imports appear less attractive to US consumers.

Little Fish
 

PJJ

Beach Lover
Oct 27, 2007
131
43
The belief that Fed hikes strengthen the dollar is outdated and Keynesian (a bad word in economic circles). Supply siders such as John Tamny have been saying this for a while, and while many understand the Laffer Curve as it pertains to tax revenue, they miss when it comes to Fed policy. Here is one excerpt:

The dollar lost 67 percent versus gold between 1972 and 1975, despite the fact that the Fed hiked rates from 3.5 percent to 13 percent in that period. When the Fed reversed course in 1975, lowering its rate target from 13 to 4.75 percent, gold actually fell 23 percent. When the Fed raised the funds rate all the way to 14 percent in 1980, rather than strengthen, the dollar fell, driving the price of gold from $150 an ounce to an all-time-high of $892.

Just as tax increases don?t always yield commensurate revenue increases due to a downward shift in economic activity, interest-rate hikes frequently fail to enhance dollar demand. In historical terms, rate increases have rarely constituted ?tightening? when it comes to restoring the greenback?s value.

A case in point came at the tail end of Alan Greenspan?s tenure as Fed chairman. Greenspan is frequently blamed for keeping the fed funds rate too low for too long, in such a way that the dollar lost value. But the dollar price of an ounce of gold tells an entirely different story. Gold hovered in the high $300s while Greenspan held the fed funds rate at 1 percent between July of 2003 and June of 2004.Gold only began to rise once the Fed began raising rates that June. After 425 basis points of rate increases, gold has risen nearly 70 percent.

Targeting higher interest rates to combat inflation is very much a Keynesian concept whereby central banks seek to reduce economic activity as well as prices. Contrary to current Fed objectives, the surest way to decrease dollar demand and ultimately cause a net excess of dollar liquidity that would spark new inflationary pressures would be to target the economy for slower growth with higher interest rates.
 

Darth_Invader

Beach Crab
Oct 19, 2007
3
0
Freeportian
I'm with Shelly on this one. While it may temporarily help some (maybe even me), it's more of an attempt to boost morale. Ben can say he stepped in as he's stepping out.
 

goofer

Beach Fanatic
Feb 21, 2005
1,165
191
If Ben does cut by 50 bps and the stock market jumps 200 -300 points, I plan to completely hedge my entire portfolio by buying S&P puts. I never thought this subprime and derivative mess would be as insidious as it has become. It has permeated every facet of the financial system throughout the world. And don't even mention the housing and related industries that have been affected. I think Julian Robertson is right that we face a doosey of a recession. The only thing that will cure the system and end the growling grizzly is a massive liquidation of spec homes, spec lot holders, and massive writedowns to the tune of hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars of worthless loans and exotic securities that are being carried on AND off the books. It will be very painful for many households but that is the only way a bear mkt ends... MASSIVE LIQUIDATION. I think even if the FED cuts by 50 bps, it would be like pushing on a string. Temporary relief rally in the markets but not much to cure the underlying disease. But of course the Pols won't let any of that happen in a big election year. My hats off to the many of you that were issuing warnings two years ago.
 

Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
If Ben does cut by 50 bps and the stock market jumps 200 -300 points, I plan to completely hedge my entire portfolio by buying S&P puts. I never thought this subprime and derivative mess would be as insidious as it has become. It has permeated every facet of the financial system throughout the world. And don't even mention the housing and related industries that have been affected. I think Julian Robertson is right that we face a doosey of a recession. The only thing that will cure the system and end the growling grizzly is a massive liquidation of spec homes, spec lot holders, and massive writedowns to the tune of hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars of worthless loans and exotic securities that are being carried on AND off the books. It will be very painful for many households but that is the only way a bear mkt ends... MASSIVE LIQUIDATION. I think even if the FED cuts by 50 bps, it would be like pushing on a string. Temporary relief rally in the markets but not much to cure the underlying disease. But of course the Pols won't let any of that happen in a big election year. My hats off to the many of you that were issuing warnings two years ago.

Goofer,
I am probably stating or rather asking the obvious to those of you who know so much more than I about finances - but massive liquidations paid by whom? The federal government? And who will decide who qualifies for the writedowns?
 

PJJ

Beach Lover
Oct 27, 2007
131
43
Goofer,
I am probably stating or rather asking the obvious to those of you who know so much more than I about finances - but massive liquidations paid by whom? The federal government? And who will decide who qualifies for the writedowns?

I'm not goofer, and I don't agree with a lot of what he posted (sounds like the short posters on yahoo), but the liquidation is by the owner of RE, stocks, etc. paid for by the owners. Writedowns are determined by the financier, and isn't necessarily based on who does or does not qualify for one. For instance, if you owned a lot in Watercolor that you bought in 2005, Countrywide may write down $300,000 based on the fact that they don't believe they'll be able to recover the full amount of the note. They could also downgrade the loan and hold more in reserve to offset future losses, but 9/10 times you'd have no idea. You would still owe them the full amount of the note, but they would rather recognize the loss now to offset other gains, or for many other reasons. As for discounting the note, that's a whole different question and not easily answered in a post here.
 

elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
Goofer,
I am probably stating or rather asking the obvious to those of you who know so much more than I about finances - but massive liquidations paid by whom? The federal government? And who will decide who qualifies for the writedowns?
That is exactly the right question. If confidence is shattered there will be no market for liquidation of any sort, much less "massive". Confidence is what the world runs on. Without a belief in value on both sides a trade will not happen, and trading is most of what we humans do. Much of the current mess has come from the "mark to model" method of valuing "assets". When I fantasize that my house is worth $1.2m I am "marking to model" when I go to sell it then it is "marked to market". Nobody is giving me $1.2m for my house right now and I may be forced to re-examine my delusions as to my net worth and fess up to everyone I know. Maybe marking to market would get me half of the mark to model amount and that isn't good enough because I used the model price to borrow lots of money. Anyway I'm getting away from the topic and my brain is hurting.
 
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goofer

Beach Fanatic
Feb 21, 2005
1,165
191
What I mean by massive liquidations is that, as an example, all of the property that is for sale all along 30-A by speculators that got in over their heads......all those properties will have to be sold to pay off the loans and drastically reduce all the inventory that is over hanging the mkt. Now those properties will be sold at a huge loss to the owners as well as a big loss to the banks that loaned them the money. The property owners owe more on their loans than their property is worth. The banks get to take the loss as well as write down the value of other loans that are non performing in their portfolios ( they do the latter by increasing their loan loss requirements ). Hedge funds, pension funds, banks, brokeragage firms, mutual funds etc that invested in mortgages that were securitized will need to write down the value of those securities because no one knows how to properly value them. By doing that, they will realize hundreds of billions of dollars in losses. Now you say WHY DO THIS. The answer is that our system runs on CONFIDENCE. By marking down securities to their proper value, and cleaning up the entire mess, confidence will be restored. There are going to be alot of dead carcasses on the side of the road but that is how capitalism works. There will be alot of investors that are going to get some great bargains by other people's troubles. The same thing happened in the 1980's with the RTC and the savings and loan fiasco predicated on real estate speculation. That is how our system works....the excesses are squeezed out and the party starts all over again but from a lower value. The MARKET will cure the problem not the govt....at least that is how it should work.
 
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