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WTF! This needs to be stopped...

Discussion in 'All About SoWal' started by bsmart, Oct 19, 2005.

  1. bsmart

    bsmart brain

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    FROM FOX NEWS:

    In an about-face, Gov. Jeb Bush is backing a plan allowing limited exploration for oil drilling off Florida's coastline.

    "My position is if we can get an assurance to extend a 100- to 125-mile swath from Pensacola all the way to Jacksonville to protect our beaches, then we ought to try and get it. We don't have that today," Bush said.
    While the current moratorium on offshore drilling (search) is set to expire in 2007, there is no law banning drilling entirely. Opponents of the governor's plan on both sides of the aisle would rather see an outright ban on drilling for the entire eastern Gulf of Mexico.

    "It's not worth [how] it would hurt us and our military preparedness and [how] it would hurt Florida's economy by messing up our pristine beaches," said Sen. Bill Nelson, a Democrat.

    But drilling has been permitted for decades off other parts of America's coastline, such as Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Alaska and portions of Southern California. One oil industry expert says that after two seasons of hard-hitting hurricanes, it's time Florida contributed its share.

    "We need more natural gas supply and we need them from diverse areas of our country," said Darrel Henry of the American Gas Association (search).

    According to proponents, there is enough untapped, natural gas in the Gulf to power as many as 60 million American homes for the next hundred years. But opponents say the risk of oil spills and pollution could damage Florida's tourism-driven coastal economy.

    "If people don't come to Florida, if they don't come to the beaches, if they don't spend their money here, we're in a lot of trouble as a state," warned Joe Murphy, of the Sierra Club (search) in Florida.

    Congress is expected to revisit this debate when it returns this week. With winter around the corner, the only thing both sides agree on is that already-high fuel prices will go up even higher.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you have any idea what that would do to our beaches? I am totally outraged. 125 miles is nothing...that is not far enough to keep the beaches pristine, and it seems it could obstruct views to the horizon.

    :bang: :pissed: :pissed: :bang:
     
  2. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    I remember when the rigs were there back in the day - stepping on the black tar blobs that littered the beach and left little black streaks on the towels - hearing the 'whooooooooooo' of the whistle at night when the wind was from offshore - fishing downstream of the rig with my uncle and catching the most monster grouper
     
  3. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    My guess is that there are currently oil wells in the Gulf within 125 miles from SoWal, over in Mississippi. As far as the views to the horizon, you can see only about 7 miles out. Even with the wells being 125 miles away, they still would not be visible from One Seagrove Place.

    That said, the real problem is the potential pollution occuring from drilling and extracting oil and natural gas. Instead of drilling, why don't they spend that money on more research and development of alternative fuel sources? That is what kills me. :bang: Big Oil and Big Four auto makers are running the show in Washington, and they are ruining it for everyone.
     
  4. bsmart

    bsmart brain

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    Right. :clap_1:
     
  5. Dabell

    Dabell Beach Fanatic

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    I do not want to see that happen!
    Yet, I did hear that there is a main gas line that does run threw ( under Ground) the panhadle.
     
  6. Miss Kitty

    Miss Kitty Meow

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    Jr...are you in heaven or what?
     
  7. Wu

    Wu Beach Comber

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    Wu ride bike. :D
     
  8. Rudyjohn

    Rudyjohn SoWal Insider

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    Still, I need more.
     
  9. bsmart

    bsmart brain

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    I feel so stupid now, I meant to add something in here about boating and the view, but I guess that still won't affect it much--just ignore me, I am sleep deprived lately.
     
  10. Miss Kitty

    Miss Kitty Meow

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    Greedy, huh?
     
  11. Rudyjohn

    Rudyjohn SoWal Insider

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    I'm thinking maybe a more interesting topic? Not that this isn't very important... it is, but... it's sort of complicated, you know?
    I think I'm going to have to start a new thread!
     
  12. gary garrett

    gary garrett Beach Comber

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    Until about 10 years ago, we were annual visitors to the Texas coast. I grew up going to Galveston each summer for vacation with my family. I loved it.

    I now drive 13 hours to come to SoWal (instead of 4 hours to Galveston). The reason. Simple, the beaches in Texas are ruined. The last time we visited Galveston, the beach was gone along the seawall due to beach eroision caused by the seawall. Sound familiar?

    The last time we visited Port Aransas (farther south on the Texas coast), you could not walk on the beach without your feet getting covered with tar (from the offshore wells). All of the rental properties and walkovers had "cleaning stations" for your feet, along with signs asking you to please not use the guest towels as cleaning rags.

    The tar gets on your feet, your clothes, your shoes, your towel, on you beach chairs, in you house, in your car, on your dog, all over your kids, on their toys, not to mention on every shrimp and crab you eat.

    Also, for each well, there needs to be a pipeline running to shore. To run these inland, the beach must be dug through and the pipes laid. Then of course you need a place to collect that oil or gas and process it. Now you get to have some great looking refineries.

    Wow, I may get to start driving back to Galveston. No need to drive 13 hours to get beach eroision, tar, ugly views from the beach and refineries (but of course the gas will be much cheaper with all these new wells in Florida. ha ha).

    Barbie
     
  13. southof30A

    southof30A Beach Lover

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    Whoa cowboy! I'm probably going to provide a (lone) differing opinion on this topic. I drill oil and gas wells for a living, to provide a living for my family, and to provide a necessary raw material for our society (at least in our lifetimes...)

    To address a few points:

    1) "you could not walk on the beach without your feet getting covered with tar (from the offshore wells)" - Granted, some of this tar may be coming from offshore oil operations, but other sources include dumped bunker fluid from oil tankers bringing in oil from other countries to satisfy our never-ending appetite for oil. The U.S. oil consumption fuels a whole lot of the economies of some of the worst places for corruption and human rights violations on this planet (Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Congo, Indonesia, Columbia, etc.) The oil and gas producton industry as a whole has a pretty good environmental record. Way more oil has been spilled due to transportation (importing) than from domestic production.

    2) "Also, for each well, there needs to be a pipeline running to shore" - Simply not true. Oil and natural gas are gathered to central processing facilities offshore. Flow from many platforms are gathered together and shipped to shore through a common pipeline.

    3) "Then of course you need a place to collect that oil or gas and process it. Now you get to have some great looking refineries" - There hasn't been a new refinery built in the USA in over 20 years and it's not likely that one would ever be built in SoWal. Crude oil is often piped hundreds of miles inland to existing refineries near population centers. For example, foreign crude oil is unloaded offshore Louisiana (LOOP) and piped to Ashland, Kentucky and Canton, Ohio to be refined. Why build a refinery on the beach and then have to transport gasoline, jet fuel and heating oil to Chattanooga or Cincinatti?

    In addition, offshore Panhandle production will likely be natural gas (geologic reasons) which can usually be put into the interstate pipeline systems with much less processing than crude oil. With natural gas, it is simply a matter of removing impurities such as sulfur whereas refining crude oil means creating new substances such as gasoline and jet fuel.

    4) "Wow, I may get to start driving back to Galveston..." - Very telling statement... Please keep in mind what powers your car, SUV, etc? Why not ride your horse? What powers the tractors to cut hay and harvest feed for you and your horse... Alternative fuels (hydrogen, fuel cells, fusion) will power the future, just not in our lifetimes and definitely not at an equivalent price of as low as $3.00/gal. of gasoline.

    Those of us in the world who view an oilfield as a thing of beauty are very much in the minority. But we all use and absolutely need crude oil, natural gas, and the products created from these substances. I respect your opinion that you would rather not have offshore oil production. We in the business would rather not have it either but we are kinda at the mercy of where Mother Nature put the oil and gas. We have got to produce it from where it is located in the earth. And we, as a society which is totally tied to energy production from fossil fuels (at least for our and our children's lifetimes), must develop a sense of understanding about oil and gas production. Thanks.
     
  14. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Thanks for the clarification, Southof30-A. I do understand that which you are saying, but I will go back to my earlier statement and say that if the oil and automobile companies didn't line the Politicians' pockets via lobbiests, we wouldn't have this problem of being dependent upon fossil fuels, and we may have a much cleaner environment. Granted, you would have a different job, but you just might like it. :D
     
  15. southof30A

    southof30A Beach Lover

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    Unfortunately, the economic and technical realities are that we as a society will likely prefer to use hydrocarbon based energy sources until those supplies become so high cost as to allow alternate sources of energy such as hydrogen and fuel cells to compete. That is true of any commodity. These alternate sources of energy will also come at a much higher cost and bring associated economic ramifications. Imagine how our nation's economy would change if motor fuels from alternate energy sources cost the equivalent of $10/gallon of gasoline.

    With time it will also become accepted that crude oil and natural gas are much too valuable as a chemical feedstock than to be simply burned to generate electricity or power motor vehicles.
     
  16. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    bring it on home and invest, invest, invest in the future:

    http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/1716137.php

    excerpt:

    Brazil embraces ethanol

    Although the United States is the world's second-largest ethanol maker, producing 3.4 billion gallons last year compared with around 4 billion gallons for Brazil, ethanol's main use in the United States is as a gasoline oxygenate to boost air quality rather than as a replacement for foreign oil.

    SAO PAULO, Brazil ? While Americans fume at high gasoline prices, Carolina Rossini is the essence of Brazilian cool at the pump.

    Like tens of thousands of her countrymen, she is running her zippy red Fiat on pure ethanol extracted from Brazilian sugar cane. On a recent morning in Brazil's largest city, the clear liquid was selling for less than half the price of gasoline, a sweet deal for the 26-year-old lawyer.

    "You save money and you don't pollute as much," said Rossini, who paid about $18 to fill her nearly empty tank. "And it's a good thing that the product is made here."

    Three decades after the first oil shock rocked its economy, Brazil has nearly shaken its dependence on foreign oil.

    ...

    Developing its own oil reserves was crucial to Brazil's long-term strategy. Its domestic petroleum production has increased sevenfold since 1980. But the Western Hemisphere's second-largest economy also has embraced renewable energy with a vengeance.

    ...

    The exploding popularity of these "flex-fuel" vehicles is reverberating across Brazil's farming sector. Private investors are channeling billions of dollars into sugar and alcohol production, creating much-needed jobs in the countryside. Environmentalists support the expansion of this clean, renewable fuel that has helped improve air quality in Brazil's cities. Consumers are tickled to have a choice at the filling station.


    If only those who can do anything would listen... :bang: :bang: :bang:
     
  17. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Uncle Jessy knew about more than running shine. He also knew about running on shine. As my friend says, "It ain't rocket science."
     
  18. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    feel free to say dumb things - I do it all the time (hopefully we're all used to it by now)

    nothing like getting up the next morning and reading what you wrote and thinking 'what was I thinlking"

    wonder if my horse has had his hay and is ready for the commute this morning (just kidding, big oil)
     
  19. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Well, I am sure if you are feeding your horses bailed hay in the winter, Big Oil got you there. :bang: So horses dont work. Bicycle tires are made from petrolium products, as is the plastic containers from which most milk jugs are made, so that you can add to your coffee prior to leaving for work. I guess even the rubber on the bottom of my birks are made from some petrolium resource. :bang:
     
  20. Rita

    Rita margarita brocolia

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    A positive of the higher oil/gas prices is that it has taken the alternative fuel research and production off the "back burner" again. Now if we can just keep it off the back burner. A lot could be done with promotions and getting information out to the public. I don't know of any strong lobby for this though, and that may be what it takes. :sosad:
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2005

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