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6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009890

Here is a former terrorist talking about the dangers of appeasement.

The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.

BY TAWFIK HAMID
Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things have been, or could be, right.

But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.

The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.





Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a fa?ade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.

The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners. It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to morally support America's enemies.

Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.

Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be considered "moderates."





All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of suppressing their voices.
Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue to face us.

Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.
 

mf

Banned
May 14, 2006
208
0
anybody whose been to isreal even once know this...

i've seen how christian and jews treat sacred sites of other religions and i've seen how muslim folk treat sacred sites of other religions.

while the christians and jews respect other religions, muslims will slap a mosque even on the temple ground of isreal (the most holy site to all jews) and refuse to let jews ever enter there. they will also desecrate the birthplace of jesus. or blow up an ancient archaeological site important to buddhists. this is not a theory. it's reality.

as i'm all for tolerance, so i think it's important to remember that if you give too great a berth to those who are intolerant, like fundamentalist muslims, you are not ensuring THEIR freedoms, but impeding the freedoms of others.
 
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rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor05232006.html
check this description out of "young christian warriors" in the U.S.
If you would like to concede that this fanatical fringe group of Christians represent all Christians, then I would be happy to agree with your broad generalizations about 1 billion muslims drawn from an article about one group of fanatical Muslims.
Be careful not to confuse Arab/American politics with Islam. Just as W and his cabal have characterized our war in the middle east as some sort of good vs. evil ( with God on our side) struggle, similar leaders in the middle east have simply done the same thing; cloaking their agendas in religious fanaticism.
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,314
2,349
55
Backatown Seagrove
http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor05232006.html
check this description out of "young christian warriors" in the U.S.
If you would like to concede that this fanatical fringe group of Christians represent all Christians, then I would be happy to agree with your broad generalizations about 1 billion muslims drawn from an article about one group of fanatical Muslims.
Be careful not to confuse Arab/American politics with Islam. Just as W and his cabal have characterized our war in the middle east as some sort of good vs. evil ( with God on our side) struggle, similar leaders in the middle east have simply done the same thing; cloaking their agendas in religious fanaticism.

I have made a vow not to mix it up too much on the political stuff anymore, but might I state that this is perhaps the most inane post in the history of this forum?:roll:
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor05232006.html
check this description out of "young christian warriors" in the U.S.
If you would like to concede that this fanatical fringe group of Christians represent all Christians, then I would be happy to agree with your broad generalizations about 1 billion muslims drawn from an article about one group of fanatical Muslims.

Where in The Bible does it command followers to kill non-believers?

Be careful not to confuse Arab/American politics with Islam. Just as W and his cabal have characterized our war in the middle east as some sort of good vs. evil ( with God on our side) struggle, similar leaders in the middle east have simply done the same thing; cloaking their agendas in religious fanaticism.

Islam is as much a political idealogy as it is a religion. You should read books every once in a while. Start with the Qu'ran and read up Sharia.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
Where in The Bible does it command followers to kill non-believers?



Islam is as much a political idealogy as it is a religion. You should read books every once in a while. Start with the Qu'ran and read up Sharia.


" read books" You should try to discuss without being a jerk. Read the Bible and brush up on your evangelical literature. Why don't you read my article on Mr. Luce and open your mind before responding about insane posts. Typical bigoted reponse. Instead of discussing or defending radical Christian right views you choose to simply deem my opinion insane. Your views of Islam seem to come right off of that ridiculous morning FOX news show.
Your point that Islam is a political ideology is exactly what I was saying. People in Muslim countries have used religion to forward their political agendas- no doubt. This is hardly newsworthy. Bush has done the exact same thing. He has framed the War in Iraq as many things but one is clearly as a war where God is on his side.
For further reading, you may want to enlighten yourself regarding the Christian rights belief in the return of Jesus/ rapture/return of the Jews to Palestine cult. Great story but hardly something to base a foreign policy on.
 
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