Mosquito Control wants to spend $1.2 million for a new poison spray plane

[organicmama]

You can't go wrong w/ fewer chemicals and the least amount of messing w/ mother nature.

If fewer skeeters is the desired goal, is a new plane the best solution from both a monetary and environmental standpoint?

I'd worry more about all of the chemicals in your home and on/in your food before I'd blame mosquito spraying for a bunch of diseases.

Too much TV is probably doing as much mental and physical damage to people as skeeter spraying!

You are totally right on! I'd simply not like to have to worry as much about my kids digging in the dirt and walking barefoot in regards to absorbing toxins through their skin... and I'll take a reduction of it if that's all that's possible. I do believe that we can truly find the balance in this.

 

[Tupelo Honey]

]Important: Please READ[/b]
Spent a half hour typing a post and then lost it, so here goes again. :roll:

I just spent about 45 minutes on the phone with
Dr. Jim Cilek of Florida ANM University in Panama City Beach, Professor of Entomology and he specifically has intensive experience with the Dog Fly Program in Research. The Dog Fly program consults to the State of Florida Agriculture and Consumer Services, but is NOT a part or division of such. The State is responsible for the spraying.
Dr. Cilek was quite informative and a real gentleman, and understood our concerns. He is also quoted as a reference in a previous link I posted, and I didn't realize it until after I spoke to him.

This is the information I garnered regarding the rationale for aerial spraying, where dog flies originate, what is being done, and what you can do in your surroundings.

For starters, according to Dr. Cilek, dog flies are extremely difficult to track as far as where they are originating from. It is known that they are originating from dairy and cattle farmers in Northern Florida, parts of Alabama, and possibly as far as Georgia. The dog flies are carried in by cold fronts on northerly winds. The more cold fronts, the more flies.
Where they wind up (hot pockets) depends on the winds.

It is also unclear whether when they come over the bay if they are flying over trees, how high they can get, etc. Therefore, trying to stop them before they reach the beaches with other methods is highly difficult.

Aerial spraying is not done on a calendar schedule. It is done based on reports from daily inspections of the beaches. This is done by inspectors with long pants on and time how many flies land on them within a given period, and if it exceeds 5, which is considered a nusiance, aerial spraying is suggested. There may be not be any spraying one season, and some the next season dependent on how many cold fronts and flies survive to the beach.

You may ask why not try to stop the flies at the source? I asked this question, and according to Dr. Cilek, dog flies bite cows on the lower limbs. It is difficult without applying toxic chemicals to the cow to do this.
Further, there is something available to farmers which is inserted in the cow, but the cost is expensive, lasts 3-4 months only (some do however) and farmers really have no motivation short of their cow hands or milkers complaining of bites or inspectors citing them.

Regarding the aerial spraying, Dr. Cilek says based on the research and dog fly population now compared to many years ago, that the amount of spray used is negligible, as well as studies conducted on what is a safe amount. Spraying if needed based on the amounts determined to be a nusiance is done between 10 am-12 pm according to wind currents.

(People I am just stating what was told to me, so don't shoot the messenger)

I do want to point out though that Dr. Cilek is also involved in research in using alternative methods. He has studied solar panel electrocution traps, there may be a research study in St. Andrews Park with adhesive panels, and he also discovered that the beach ball trap can be effective in your own yards and surrounding in controlling populations.
However, none of these traps and alternatives will control the population of dog flies to the extent needed due to the above stated (wind and where they are coming from can not not be pre-determined.)

I will post below how to use a beach ball as a trap for dog flies here and on a separate thread.

As far as the traps I see in New Jersey, Dr. Cilek explained those are for green flies, not dog flies (so apologies for my error)

Dr. Cilek may come on here and post information, I hope he does, makes corrections or adds to my post, but if anyone has any further questions, he welcomes them, and has given me permission to post his
e-mail address.

cilek_J@popmail.firn.edu

You can also view information about dog flies and research at
http://www.pherec.org
specifically ENT guides.

____________________________________________________________
Beach Ball Dog Fly Traps

Dog flies like other insects can not see colors, so a red, white and blue beach ball will attract more flies due to variations in shades which flies are attracted to. Coat the beach ball with tanglefoot adhesive (can be purchased at Ace Hardware)
It's best to hang on a tree limb or tethered somewhere higher up, and make sure that has the ability to swing somewhat. Dr. Cilek believes the flies ae also attracted to the shimmer.

Go Mango! :clap_1: Great post!

Thank you for your research efforts by talking to Dr. Cilek. Now there is a much clearer picture about the who/what/when/where/how regarding the flies. And it's good to hear about alternative methods like the solar panels and the beach balls.

It would be cool if Dr. Cilek stopped by to post!

 

[30A Skunkape]

I wanted to share a few links that may calm some of the nerves that seem to be tweaked regarding environmental toxins and cancer. If nothing else, PLEASE take the cancer IQ quiz. The second link is also from the American Cancer Society which can help clear up lots of misconceptions and link you to a bounty of good information.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_11_1_Top_10_Cancer_Myths_Quiz.asp

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/PED_11_Cancer_Myths.asp

 

[30A Skunkape]

In regards to herbal remedies, I stumbled upon this fellow's blog which treats the subject with honesty. He gives great insight into herbal and vitamin therapy. Many useful links, and he isn't trying to sell anything. If you don't want to read, at the very least, please take to heart this snippet which is what I have been trying to get across to everyone:

What are other credible sources, outside of physicians, currently on the internet or elsewhere that can help guide patients on natural medicine choices?
First, the internet is largely a horrible place for information on natural medicine choices. Misinformation outweighs objective truth 99 times out of 100 (no exaggeration). Most internet sites are written to sell you a product and make you think you are getting ?scientific? information.

http://terrasig.blogspot.com/2006/05/best-objective-herbal-medicine.html

 

[30A Skunkape]

Hello to those on the "Issue at Hand"

I've been catching up on the posts since I visited last evening. Just a few comments--

"Although we all individually face problems with hazardous pesticides, pesticides are not principally a personal problem.

Pesticides are hazardous to human health and the environment, create resistant pest populations, contribute to declining crop yields, undermine local and global food security and threaten agricultural biodiversity. Yet these pervasive chemicals are promoted by multinational corporations, public relations firms, and even schools and the government agencies that are supposed to protect our families, workers and the environment. Pesticides are a more than $35 billion a year industry. Dealing with pesticides requires that we all work together to change pest management practices and policies." (Taken from Pesticide Action Network of North America)

The chemical companies formulate their poisons and submit the name of the "cide" or killing agent along with 99% inert ingredients being non-disclosed. These inert ingredients have for many years been considered trade secrets; however, activist groups have made headway on full disclosure, especially since these inerts are the chemicals which drive the poison into the mitochondria of the cell. We do have a right to know what comprises the total killing package. Here's more on inerts:

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/inerts/cox-inerts.htm

For those of you on the fence, please spend a few sobering minutes on a site which lists those who have been killed by pesticides-- even commercial head lice products. (t's sold so it's safe---NOT! It's commonly used, so it's safe--NOT!)

A page dedicated to the martyrs of PESTICIDE POISONING:
http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/inerts/cox-inerts.htm

They also offer a list of symptoms of pesticide poisoning.

http://www.pesticide.org/factsheets.html
"Mosquito control strategies that rely on pesticides to kill adult mosquitoes are currently recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as an "important component of any integrated mosquito management program."(3) However, NCAP believes such spraying is inefficient and uses toxic chemicals that pose hazards for our health and the health of the environment. Successful management of West Nile virus requires that communities learn how to control mosquito populations by reducing breeding habitats and learn how to protect themselves from mosquito bites. Strategies aimed at these two measures will ensure that the use of pesticides does not add to the problems caused by this disease."

If you really want to sink your teeth into this issue, order a copy of "Our Children's Toxic Legacy...How Science and Law Fail to Protect Us from Pesticides." by John Wargo, the Director of The Children's Center for Environmental Health at Yale University. He has testified in Congress and been an adviser to senior environmental policymakers in the EPA, the White House and UN WHO.

Here's an interesting bit of info on one of the tangents:

Quack- back in the 1500's (Middle Ages) the physicians of the day were using lead, arsenic, mercury and other highly-toxic substances in the treatment of disease. The herbalists were utterly aghast at the use of mercury (quicksilver) and coined the term "quacksilvers" for those who used these poisons on humans. Isn't it interesting how the pendulum swings, physicians/quacks to herbalists/quacks.......hmmmmm.

An interesting post, but I feel obligated to take some of the assertions to task. I do not know where you mined the data that states insecticides are a $35 billion annual industry, so I am not sure how old or recent that figure is nor who arrived at it. I looked for data to figure out the annual sales of herbs/vitamins in the US, and it is surprisongly elusive. I did find a survey done by the Hartman Group that states that US herb-vit sales amounted to $10.4 Billion in 1999 and that 71% of US households have at least one bottle of herbs or vitamins in the house. I do not have any more recent data and would appreciate it....BUT, I am just curious to know why so few people seem concerned that the herb-vit industry has practically no oversight yet manufactures products intended to GO INTO HUMAN BODIES while the pesticide industry, which is subject to intense scrutiny and manufactures products that are safe if used as directed, instills fear!

I am no farmer, and I am not sure who the Pesticide Action Network is (can we call them PANic for short?:funn: ), but I am profoundly skeptical that pesticides somehow reduce yields. Hell, our government PAYS FARMERS NOT TO GROW CROPS! I thought the organic farmer adopted a 'one for them, one for us' philosophy of crop loss to insects while the farmer who uses insecticides enjoys a 'two for us' crop yield. Please explain how insecticides reduce yields.

What the heck is the Journal of Pesticide Reform? A good rule of thumb...be skeptical of any journal that cites references from its own 'pages' (or webpages more likely)to bolster articles printed within and fails to disclose a content review board.

Martyrs of pesticide poisoning? :funn:

Of course you are correct regarding what we retrospectively know was bad medicine in history. However, your assertion that there were two 'camps' of healers, one the precursor of modern allopaths and the other the forerunner of modern naturapaths is wholly inaccurate. Modern American allopathic medicine began with standardization of medical education and curriculum in the late 19th century. Before that time, it literally was, 'anything goes'. What is (well maybe not terribly) surprising is that you fail to provide the 'rest of the story' in that herbalists are still using methods not much different than those they employed in the 16th century-scant objective data regarding therapy and cure, poor standardization of therapeutic delivery and lax oversight.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Example of pharma companies misleading the public. Not only did they mislead the public, but they also mislead the doctors to whom PurduePharma Sales Reps push the faulty information. "it (PurduePharma) encouraged physicians to overprescribe OxyContin."

The makers of Oxycontin, PurduePharma, have agreed to pay more $630,000,000 in fines, for misleading the public on the addictive nature of the drug.

OxyContin Maker, Execs Plead Guilty


By SUE LINDSEY
The Associated Press
Thursday, May 10, 2007; 12:29 PM

ROANOKE, Va. -- The maker of the powerful painkiller OxyContin and three of its current and former executives pleaded guilty Thursday to misleading the public about the drug's risk of addiction, a federal prosecutor and the company said.

Purdue Pharma L.P., its president, top lawyer and former chief medical officer will pay $634.5 million in fines for claiming the drug was less addictive and less subject to abuse than other pain medications, U.S. Attorney John Brownlee said in a news release.... (Full story)

 

[30A Skunkape]

Example of pharma companies misleading the public. Not only did they mislead the public, but they also mislead the doctors to whom PurduePharma Sales Reps push the faulty information. "it (PurduePharma) encouraged physicians to overprescribe OxyContin."

The makers of Oxycontin, PurduePharma, have agreed to pay more $630,000,000 in fines, for misleading the public on the addictive nature of the drug.

OxyContin Maker, Execs Plead Guilty


By SUE LINDSEY
The Associated Press
Thursday, May 10, 2007; 12:29 PM

ROANOKE, Va. -- The maker of the powerful painkiller OxyContin and three of its current and former executives pleaded guilty Thursday to misleading the public about the drug's risk of addiction, a federal prosecutor and the company said.

Purdue Pharma L.P., its president, top lawyer and former chief medical officer will pay $634.5 million in fines for claiming the drug was less addictive and less subject to abuse than other pain medications, U.S. Attorney John Brownlee said in a news release.... (Full story)

Good, oversight is a wonderful thing. Again, 99% of meds used as inteneded are safe and effective.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Organic Mama, I read that list of toxic compounds and I think every agent listed is in my shampoo

Seriously, a few months ago I broke out in a terrible rash on my scalp...no more info needs be disclosed, but I was asked by my barber if I used Pantene...which I did! He told me he had seen similar flares with other customers that used that product. I used bar soap to wash my hair, and within 3 days my scalp was again in good health! I asked a dermatology resident about it after the fact and she opined that based on what I described, it was the sodium lauryl sulfate (a foaming agent) that was the culprit! How about that!?

At any rate, I did read the list and it seems that most agents listed are irritants and only at supratherapeutic exposure at that. I will print it out though, as you can't believe how many people come in complaining of rashes, and playing detective with the list might be fun.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Good, oversight is a wonderful thing. Again, 99% of meds used as inteneded are safe and effective.

Seems to me in this case with PurduePharma, there was absence of oversight for a long time. I know too many people who got hooked on oxycontin, and it has destroyed their lives completely.

I am all for oversight, and wish the FDA would allow the non-pharma companies to be tested. It is a shame that while we know vitamins can be beneficial to us, the FDA does not test them for contents, or effects. Due to this lack of oversight by the FDA, Vitamin companies have no checks, and the consumers might not be getting what they think they are getting.

Tying in this lack of oversight from the FDA to the Dpt of Agriculture, don't you think it is possible that the local boys at SW Skeeter Control, could get a little heavy handed with the mixing? Maybe it takes only one screw up day to mess all of us up.

Skunky, didn't you post information on Malaria outbreak in the US back on a wetlands thread, showing that we have never had an outbreak of Malaria in Walton County?

Someone else posted that our lifespan has increased during the time when we were spraying poisons on bugs. I find that to be as useful as comparing lifespan to the consumption of cheeseburgers purchased at McDonalds. Surely, increased lifespan of humans could be directly related to most of our houses not being heated by wood buring inside of the homes, or any other things like that. -- Right?

 

[30A Skunkape]

Seems to me in this case with PurduePharma, there was absence of oversight for a long time. I know too many people who got hooked on oxycontin, and it has destroyed their lives completely.

I am all for oversight, and wish the FDA would allow the non-pharma companies to be tested. It is a shame that while we know vitamins can be beneficial to us, the FDA does not test them for contents, or effects. Due to this lack of oversight by the FDA, Vitamin companies have no checks, and the consumers might not be getting what they think they are getting.

Tying in this lack of oversight from the FDA to the Dpt of Agriculture, don't you think it is possible that the local boys at SW Skeeter Control, could get a little heavy handed with the mixing? Maybe it takes only one screw up day to mess all of us up.

Skunky, didn't you post information on Malaria outbreak in the US back on a wetlands thread, showing that we have never had an outbreak of Malaria in Walton County?

Someone else posted that our lifespan has increased during the time when we were spraying poisons on bugs. I find that to be as useful as comparing lifespan to the consumption of cheeseburgers purchased at McDonalds. Surely, increased lifespan of humans could be directly related to most of our houses not being heated by wood buring inside of the homes, or any other things like that. -- Right?

Plenty of folks get hooked on oxycontin, no doubt. However, let me go out on a very thick limb and postulate that far more patients who do have chronic and/or acute pain are helped by the appropriate use of the medication. There are allopathic quacks who open pain clinics that are not much more than pill mill cashcows;I think they should be shuttered when they are identified. Additionally, some well meaning docs prescribe the stuff way too liberally. Sometimes, the problem lies in addicted patients who doctor shop, go into ERs and intimidate docs into prescribing pain meds, etc, etc. But the system, such as it is, works (imperfectly) and prescribers need to provide an FDA number when Rxing narcotic meds, and red flags are raised when patterns seem out of whack.

As far as the FDA providing oversight, did you see my post earlier in this thread about what is involved with a company bringing a new drug to market within FDA guidelines? Why, oh why, would the herb and vitamin makers want any part of this? The DSHEA act passed in Congress in the early 1990s allowed herb and vitamin companies to operate under the 'supplement' umbrella and as I noted before, they need not prove anything regarding safety or efficacy of their products before they hit the shelves. As long as they do not promise to 'diagnose or cure' any condition and state that claims made on the label 'have not been evaluated by the FDA', they are ready for market!

You are right, somebody could mix something wrong and make people sick in theory. Whether or not this is a realistic scenario or not, I don't know as I am not sure if they dilute a concentrate at the mosquito control plant or if they spray a pre-diluted chemical. But it certainly argues that all those involved in the spraying program be well trained.

I think I posted a map of modern day malaria and yellow fever incidence. I doubt that if the spraying stopped today we would see a spike in malaria or other conditions which depend on mosquitoes as vectors (maybe with the exception of West Nile virus and other flavivirus). Now, I know that historically Bay County had malaria, so I don't see why Walton wouldn't. The doc who invented the air conditioning in Appalachicola did so in large part because of the terrible fever his malaria patients suffered with (or at least that is what I read), and that wasn't terribly long ago.

I don't worry about malaria or disease rearing their heads if spraying stops. I think there would be a decline in the quality of life! I know I have not lived in the area for any length of time, but I know that (what I call) horseflys or yellow flys and those biting gnats that swarm on the bay by our pad make life miserable. I daresay that outdoor activity would be out of the question if there was no spraying. The same goes for blackflies on the beach. I think it was a September near Seacrest Beach, and they were so awful that simply going to the beach was harrowing! If biting and stinging insects are allowed to be held in check only by natural predators and glue traps, there is a real risk that we will not be able to enjoy outdoor activities anymore.

I had posted that it would be interesting to look at the bell curve of life span superimposed over the same for insecticide use. You are right, there are probably a staggering number of confounding variables that would limit the exercise.