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Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,240
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
There is one thing that really bothers me about charter schools...and I will acknowledge that it is probably easier for me to say this because I do not have children -- they seem to me to work if the community throws its support and undivided attention into the school. Which is great, for that one school, in that one neighborhood where there are enough people that do not work full time and can dedicate themselves to being on the board and raising funds. But, I fear, this is where we lose sight of our civic duty. One school may save our child, and the children we know personally and therefore care about, but there are a lot of children out there in the community that suffer from this dis-involvement in the county school system by the very people who could do most to insure that children get an excellent education. The two education systems that result will make our county more divided, poorer in some areas and better preparing kids to go off and live somewhere else in others.

Charter schools are a stop gap solution, but they are not THE solution.

I don't know enough about how charter schools are run to argue this punzy. but I do know several families who have been involved in charter schools here and other places. It is my understanding that it is a public school but has its own kind of "charter" and oversight. It demands the participation of parents - so you must agree to be involved with your childrens' education. I think this is excellent. too bad you must have a charter school to demand this. parents must agree to all of the rules and regs and standards, etc., set forth in the charter. they actually sign a contract.

I don't know anything about how the funding works, except the charter school may go forward with annual fundraisers in order to fund programs and salaries as set forth in their charter. another excellent thing, IMO.

I fail to see how a charter or other alternative school takes away from other schools in the community. I believe families need a variety of choices.

I do know that several years ago Pt Washington and area parents worked very hard to have Bay Elementary (middle school then i think) turned into a community charter school. the school board did not like the idea and would not allow it to go forward. a lot of families working very hard, who are very involved in their childrens education, had put forth many long hours of work in that project to have it shot down. it was a real disappointment for our area. I believe a principal lost her job over it as well.

I also know that children and families have enjoyed being part of Seaside Neighborhood School - its a small school and certainly not for everyone. It is considered "alternative". and a wonderful educational environment, supported by Seaside and many individuals and businesses in our community.

so, I do not see that charter and other alternative schools take away from our public schools. I do think families should have choices. Our children have different learning styles and being able to choose a small alternative school for certain children (and families) is wonderful to be able to do. I've seen families with children in both public and private (right here in sowal) because their children have different learning styles and needs. how great is that?

the homeschooling trend bothers me a lot too for some reason. I'm very afraid of what these children are being "taught" in their own homes. but I also know some wonderful families who do homeschooling, and do it well.

none of the above is perfect, that's for sure. I don't propose to scrap the school board, although I do wonder what the hail they are there for sometimes, and why the hail they need to be elected. sounds really suspicious to me. politicians running our schools? maybe we need to take a good look at this sooner rather than later.
I mean, we do have professional education administrators hired to run schools, make decisions, etc.

I have my homework cut out. got a lot to learn in the next few years as I make decisions about the placement of my child. I will be interviewing some folks over the next several months...
 
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rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
When I said I think it takes away from other schools, I meant that by focusing on one school that is not inclusive or expansive, the involved parents only improve the school their child attends.

I applaud the parents who get involved at Seaside, please do not misunderstand me. I think it is fantastic that they get so involved, that they raise funds, and that they see to it that their children get an excellent education. They are the rare exception, and I don't mean to detract from any of the fabulous things they do.

In this country, though, more than 70% of mothers of school age children work. In most families, that prevents the parents from being as they should and might like to be. When we have charter schools that require parental involvement, we see the involved parents being concentrated in one or two schools, and the children with uninvolved parents end up in a school together. One school gets better and better, the other school suffers.

In New Orleans, there was one public charter school uptown called Lusher. I volunteered at a museum, and the first few school groups I took on a tour broke my heart. Third graders would struggle to read the simplest words. At first, I was always careful to stand in front of the informational cards next to the paintings so I could ask questions and discuss things before they saw the artist or date. I got out of that habit. I gave a tour to some first graders in the fall, and when I got to my first painting I did my spiel, "This is a road in New Orleans that I know you all travel all the time. Does anyone recognize it?"

One little girl all but rolled her eyes, pointed to the card, and said, "It's Magazine Street."

The difference was so pronounced I was blown away. In New Orleans, the kids of parents who can be involved send their kids to a charter school, the parents who are well off but busy send the kids to private school, and the rest go to the public schools. No one pays much attention to the state of the schools. No one demands accountability of the school board. No one demands quality public school open to everyone. It leads to a permanent dependent underclass.

I'm not comparing Walton County to New Orleans. I know there is no comparison. I'm not passing judgment, because I know if I had a child I might wish they could go to school with people of different racial and socio-economic backgrounds, but if that wasn't an excellent place to get and education I'd be doing everything I could to get my child into the charter school.

But, IMO, the community would be better off if all the schools were more or less equal in the education they offered. If all children got the same education, all the energy going into a charter school would instead be focused on the school system, and then every child would have a decent shot at becoming a successful adult, not limited by the circumstances into which they were born. Kumbaya....kum-bay-a....:roll:

I think I'm speaking in generalities and the community as a whole, while you are thinking about a child entering school next year.

And to clarify my remarks about home schooling, I know that 90% of the children are getting a fantastic education from parents with the best intentions. It's the few and far between children that are not getting much formal instruction year after year, that aren't being socialized, or are not learning about all their opportunities after high school that I worry so much about. It doesn't seem to me that there is any oversight of home schoolers.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,732
3,330
Sowal
70% of the mothers work? Maybe the FATHERS could do something then! Takes 2 to make 'em, 'cuz it takes 2 to raise them! :angry:

IMO it is a matter of priorities. Both my parents worked full time and managed to raise 2 kids who got good grades and were involved in a variety of sports and extracurricular activities (so many that I had to edit to only submit one page w/ my college applications).

They obviously weren't available for most activities during the workday (unless we had to come home sick), but they never missed a concert, important game, or parent/teacher conference. They knew my teachers, they knew my classes, they were involved in my schooling, and there were consequences for bad grades that resulted from not turning in homework or paying attention in class.

I went to a public school in a working class neighborhood and I believe I got a comparable or better education than many of my peers in private schools because of the level of parental involvement and discipline.

IMO&E apathetic and absentee parents are the reason kids don't get an education, not economic class, school funding, ethnicity, or sadly natural ability.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,240
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
IMO&E apathetic and absentee parents are the reason kids don't get an education, not economic class, school funding, ethnicity, or sadly natural ability.

punzy and scoot - you both have really good points. and it just shows how education is very complicated and especially in each kind of city or area.

and yes scooterbug - I believe the parents must be supportive in their childrens' education, regardless of what kind of education setting they are in - and this means getting the kid to school, caring about his performance, knowing his teachers, and providing a range of experiences outside school.

we are very fortunate in walton county - our public schools are excellent. parents I know are almost always pleased with teachers, school experience, etc. and we're blessed to have Bay Elem right in our neighborhood - it's a community school that has been very popular among families for a very long time!

and punzy - I think you are talking about what you've seen in NO. not necessarily problems here - yet. though we did hear from a safety and attendance officer at a recent parent education meeting - our schools have children who don't attend for weeks at a time because parents don't want to get up and get them ready. the officer visits the homes to find the child at home with parents in bed or not there at all. you can imagine all the reasons for this kind of situation. its very sad. and its right here.

I am happy to have at least a few choices in education program and setting in sowal. and thrilled to know another middle school is coming to Pt Washington - a neighborhood that will become a kind of education center. you could not ask for a more beautiful and natural environment, surrounded by families who are settled here long term.

we have been in a private school for 4 years - 95% of those parents never step foot on school ground unless mandatory (conference), or unless its a major holiday event. I've known a lot of non-working mothers who say: I've got a life, so when my kid is in school I need my time to do what I need to do. I don't have time to volunteer at the school. I pay tuition and they should have enough staff. sorry, I'm late for yoga! sorry, can't help, I've got a really important tennis lesson today! my personal trainer is waiting for me... end of story. there are always 3-5 moms (and sometimes a dad) available to help with special projects, events, etc. and I think that is sad.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
If another news journalists incorrectly uses the word, "ironically," meaning coincidentally, I may throw up in my mouth. Can someone please educate the future journalists? They are the only people I ever hear misusing the word, and they do it frequently.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,732
3,330
Sowal
we have been in a private school for 4 years - 95% of those parents never step foot on school ground unless mandatory (conference), or unless its a major holiday event. I've known a lot of non-working mothers who say: I've got a life, so when my kid is in school I need my time to do what I need to do. I don't have time to volunteer at the school. I pay tuition and they should have enough staff. sorry, I'm late for yoga! sorry, can't help, I've got a really important tennis lesson today! my personal trainer is waiting for me... end of story. there are always 3-5 moms (and sometimes a dad) available to help with special projects, events, etc. and I think that is sad.

I always wonder why people like that become parents! :dunno:

Neglect doesn't just happen in poor households!
 

SGB

Beach Fanatic
Feb 11, 2005
1,039
182
South Walton
When I said I think it takes away from other schools, I meant that by focusing on one school that is not inclusive or expansive, the involved parents only improve the school their child attends.

I applaud the parents who get involved at Seaside, please do not misunderstand me. I think it is fantastic that they get so involved, that they raise funds, and that they see to it that their children get an excellent education. They are the rare exception, and I don't mean to detract from any of the fabulous things they do.

In this country, though, more than 70% of mothers of school age children work. In most families, that prevents the parents from being as they should and might like to be. When we have charter schools that require parental involvement, we see the involved parents being concentrated in one or two schools, and the children with uninvolved parents end up in a school together. One school gets better and better, the other school suffers.

I totally understand your point, and agree to a certain extent, but let me say that I don't think that is necessarily true here. My kids go to Seaside and there are many parents that are very involved, and many that aren't. It does take a lot more effort on the part of some to keep the great programs as Seaside going (the teachers are paid for by the county, but the building, computers and any other equipment or extras need to be paid by the school. The Seaside Half Marathon and Via Colori are our 2 major fund raisers. BUT, I don't think that Emerald Coast Middle School has suffered as a result. Every year ECMS gets better and better. There are a lot of very involved parents there as well. Thankfully this results in 2 great options for our middle schoolers. As someone said, different environments fit different kids and we are lucky enough to have two choices here. I've seen kids switch from one to the other when the fit wasn't right and what they needed was at the other school.

I am now worrying about high school.... I have seen many improvements in the high school since it opened. Much of that is due to involved parents and parents that have brought their kids back to the high school here from either Niceville or Arnold. Again - we do have choices. The collegiate high school is a great option for some and the dual enrollment program that we have access to seems to be wonderful. SWHS still needs a lot of improvement, but I'm really hoping that SWHS can continue to improve, and when augmented with the virtual school and OWC, will provide a great foundation for a college education.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,240
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
I always wonder why people like that become parents! :dunno:

Neglect doesn't just happen in poor households!

I know.

but in most of these cases, the parents are good parents and have plenty of time to make sure their children participate in every recreational sport known to man outside of school hours. so, they are there for their kids. its just an ingrained attitude about how school and teachers should do their jobs - it's not my job - kind of mentality.

I was thinking of punzy's experience in new orleans. my niece has been in private schools there since preschool - she's in fifith grade now. it was my understanding that there is absolutely no other choice given the rock bottom state of education in that city - and has been the case for dozens of years. paying private tuition is part of life just like paying for electricity or a car or mortgage. this is an example of schools gone very wrong. and probably the case in many cities across the US.
 
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