Commentary on Phelps and Pot...

[Mango]

I need a hero. If you're going to be on the podium and the cover of SI, then have some integrity. If you're going to hold your body to a high athletic standard, then why not hold the rest of your life to a higher standard as well? All my life I knew that I shouldn't do certain things because of the potential disgrace of being caught.

If one wants good role models for the kids he has no choice but to turn to fiction. I don't care who you are, even the most respected elder has flaws that need to be rejected. Teach kids to think rather than believe in some role model concept which is nothing more than a media fueled fairy tale that inevitably leads to media fueled outrage. This whole deal about how it affects "the children" is just a ploy adults use in an attempt to control behavior that they personally have a problem with. It's all about the welfare of "the children". Yeah right. It reminds me of when people get an autograph from a famous person and they claim it's for their kids.:roll: B.S.

I agree with both of you, but we, as a society, put too much pressure on our "icons" and when they are youthful ones, I can not possibly imagine how much more pressure they are under. Athletes compete for themselves and push themselves to attain the impossible. Constant training, the money expended and time involved, then when you have reached your goals, like a gold medals, or in Phelps case, multiple medals, there is a sense of accomplishment, but at the same time, later when the high wears off-- in the non-literal sense-- they probably go through some depression because where do you they go from there? He's a kid really, and so what? If it were me, I'd probably have had a bong attached to me head with multiple bongy extensions in case one burned out. Instead of worrying about illicit use of drugs, we should be more concerned about his state of mind. We also are probably the only Country that gives a rat's arse about this.

 

[Geo]

This is an interesting thread & I agree with both sides. However, Geo, I'd love to see how you would feel about something similar in another 10 years when your cute little kids are older. (& they are adorable, btw!)

I don't see this as a PR machine. I feel the apology was the least he should have done. It takes a lot to own up to a mistake. The apology makes him more of a man in my eyes.

Thx for the kind words about my sweet babies.

Only time will tell how I view the world in 10 years. But on this subject I am not expecting any grand reversal in thought. I will work hard to help my kids achieve a balanced, reasonable, healthy outlook on this subject and any other. I believe my approach/attitude on this subject will serve my kids well.

Don't get me wrong. I am not PRO pot. I am ANTI anti pot.


I don't want anyone feeding it to my kids. I just don't want them to lose perspective about it. Demonizing this plant and people who use it to relax does not serve our children. Research shows that pot isn't bad and that our laws, policies and campaigns are untrue and frankly, do not work. The truth is out there about why a plant became illlegal and who was behind it. Why is this ignored? I believe that there are many sheep in this country (I am not speaking directly to anyone on this thread). They feel a certain way about something only because they believe they are supposed to. Sad.

NoHall, I agree with you that our children need heroes but I believe we need to stop pointing them in the direction of athletes and entertainers. Phelps is a swimmer. Just because SI put him on the cover in no way means he is now responsible to other people's kids. Because he went faster than the other 20 year olds in the pool and has our government's symbols on his swimcap doesn't mean that he lost his integrity when he inhaled from a waterbottle.

 

[full time]

If one wants good role models for the kids he has no choice but to turn to fiction. I don't care who you are, even the most respected elder has flaws that need to be rejected. Teach kids to think rather than believe in some role model concept which is nothing more than a media fueled fairy tale that inevitably leads to media fueled outrage. This whole deal about how it affects "the children" is just a ploy adults use in an attempt to control behavior that they personally have a problem with. It's all about the welfare of "the children". Yeah right. It reminds me of when people get an autograph from a famous person and they claim it's for their kids.:roll: B.S.

Interesting advice from a guy slobbin on Obama for the last year.

 

[traderx]

Interesting article at Cato.org on Prohibition and the Drug War.

Prohibition, which failed to improve health and virtue in America, can afford some invaluable lessons. First, it can provide some perspective on the current crisis in drug prohibition--a 75-year effort that is increasingly viewed as a failure.
Repeal of Prohibition dramatically reduced crime, including organized crime, and corruption. Jobs were created, and new voluntary efforts, such as Alcoholics Anonymous, which was begun in 1934, succeeded in helping alcoholics. Those lessons can be applied to the current crisis in drug prohibition and the problems of drug abuse. Second, the lessons of Prohibition should be used to curb the urge to prohibit. Neoprohibition of alcohol and prohibition of tobacco would result in more crime, corruption, and dangerous products and increased government control over the average citizen's life. Finally, Prohibition provides a general lesson that society can no more be successfully engineered in the United States than in the Soviet Union.

Alcohol Prohibition Was a Failure

 

[lerxst]

Finally!

I work with teenaged boys all the live long day and am desperate to find them some good role models.

Michael Vick? O.J. Simpson? Phelps?

Many of my boys have absent fathers. Some of them have fathers in prison. Some of them have fathers who have died. (A couple of them have fathers who died in prison!) If I tell them about my own father or brother, sometimes I don't think they even believe me. They don't understand good men.

I need a hero. If you're going to be on the podium and the cover of SI, then have some integrity. If you're going to hold your body to a high athletic standard, then why not hold the rest of your life to a higher standard as well? All my life I knew that I shouldn't do certain things because of the potential disgrace of being caught. I can't teach my boys that when I have all their role models giving the example of "It doesn't matter what I do in my free time as long as I win."

Takes more balls to do the right thing than to do the easy thing.

All the talk about leaglizing marijuana and other substances is so irrelevant. If Michael Phelps can discipline himself to swim the way that he does, then certainly he can discipline himself to abstain from the bong. He's a public figure now and needs to conduct himself with integrity. That's the price he has to pay for being under the microscope. I swam during all my youthful summers and four years in High school, what he accomplished takes very hard work and dedication.

And as far as analog man's post # 37 regarding legalizing drugs as the solution. Pain killers and all sorts of other pills are legalized, but they are still being sold on the streets and abused as prescriptions. Not the solution.
Do any of you have children? Have they come home stoned? lacking motivation? Been in trouble for hitting the bong? sold drugs and were caught?
Still want to justify how "cool" smoking pot is?

 

[Minnie]

I would certainly hate for anyone to compare what happened to Michael Phelps with Michael Vick and OJ. The beyond cruel treatment and death of dogs and people is certainly not in the same league with use of a bong.

The only thing that speaks to me about Phelps is he admitted he screwed up. Even the President admitted this week he screwed up also. It takes a strong person to admit such, and that is a role model I can respect.

We are human with human flaws, the best we can do on any day, is try to live up to our potential, not hurt anyone else, and if we screw up along the way, be man or woman enough to admit it.

He has apologized, if the public can not accept that, that becomes their problem not his.

 

[Matt J]

All the talk about leaglizing marijuana and other substances is so irrelevant. If Michael Phelps can discipline himself to swim the way that he does, then certainly he can discipline himself to abstain from the bong. He's a public figure now and needs to conduct himself with integrity. That's the price he has to pay for being under the microscope. I swam during all my youthful summers and four years in High school, what he accomplished takes very hard work and dedication.

And as far as analog man's post # 37 regarding legalizing drugs as the solution. Pain killers and all sorts of other pills are legalized, but they are still being sold on the streets and abused as prescriptions. Not the solution.
Do any of you have children? Have they come home stoned? lacking motivation? Been in trouble for hitting the bong? sold drugs and were caught?
Still want to justify how "cool" smoking pot is?

I believe you are putting words in peoples mouth and using scare tactics as usual.

No one has argued that smoking pot is cool. This discussion evolved into a discussion of legalizing marijuana. You immediately turn to the children, won't someone please think of the children!

Your argument can be turned to alcohol as well and is, unfortunately, much more prevalent in today's world.

Do you have children? Have they come home drunk? lacking motivation? Been in trouble for driving drunk, killing someone in the car they were driving, another car or themselves while driving drunk? Sold booze to fellow friends and been caught?

P.S. Legalizing marjuana makes it no easier to obtain by a minor than it is now. In fact I would venture it would make it more difficult since it would be going through official channels.

 

[Danny Burns]

All the talk about leaglizing marijuana and other substances is so irrelevant. If Michael Phelps can discipline himself to swim the way that he does, then certainly he can discipline himself to abstain from the bong. He's a public figure now and needs to conduct himself with integrity. That's the price he has to pay for being under the microscope. I swam during all my youthful summers and four years in High school, what he accomplished takes very hard work and dedication.

And as far as analog man's post # 37 regarding legalizing drugs as the solution. Pain killers and all sorts of other pills are legalized, but they are still being sold on the streets and abused as prescriptions. Not the solution.
Do any of you have children? Have they come home stoned? lacking motivation? Been in trouble for hitting the bong? sold drugs and were caught?
Still want to justify how "cool" smoking pot is?

As I said in previous posts:

If we simply exposed all drugs for what they really are, I think the illicitness of their appeal lessens (let's admit it, most of us try things like this because we are told not to do so) and we all benefit from the true educational aspects of the exposure. When we keep such things in the shadows as we have for 70+ years, very few of us, especially our children, even know what the actual truth of most drugs is and these false perceptions make experimentation more appealing to some of them.

I truly believe that this kind of behavior's cause is a direct result of American society's "war on drugs" mentality and its destructive influence on the abusers.

That's why I think legalization is a solution. It's still my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

And no one in this thread said pot smoking is "cool", just that it should be de-criminalized.

I encourage everyone to read this thread from the beginning. It really is interesting what people think.

Geo, this thread has become a very good dialogue. Thanks.

 

[lerxst]

As I said in previous posts:

If we simply exposed all drugs for what they really are, I think the illicitness of their appeal lessens (let's admit it, most of us try things like this because we are told not to do so) and we all benefit from the true educational aspects of the exposure. When we keep such things in the shadows as we have for 70+ years, very few of us, especially our children, even know what the actual truth of most drugs is and these false perceptions make experimentation more appealing to some of them.

I truly believe that this kind of behavior's cause is a direct result of American society's "war on drugs" mentality and its destructive influence on the abusers.

That's why I think it is a solution. It's still my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

And no one in this thread said pot smoking is "cool", just that it should be de-criminalized.

I encourage everyone to read this thread from the beginning. It really is interesting what people think.

Geo, this thread has become a very good dialogue. Thanks.

Fair enough, I change the word cool to harmless.. as in "harmless hits"
along with many other comparisons of marijuana and alcohol...

I totally understand the media frenzy and how off-balance they are-- a few weeks ago, you would have thought the most pressing question for humanity entering 2009 was, How in the world is Oprah going to lose all that weight she regained? After being such a role model for women.

Whether or not you think the court of public opinion or media opinion is irrational, is beside the point, it is irrational at times, off-balance, slanted, but public figures and role models yes I said it, role models, not perfect people, have to walk circumspectly and play the game, or be subject to what we see now.
Maybe Michael should appear on Letterman and explain himself like Blago did?? now that was interesting.

Michael will recover, and his accomplishments and hard work hopefully will shine brighter than the Bong.

 

[Danny Burns]

Fair enough, I change the word cool to harmless.. as in "harmless hits"
along with many other comparisons of marijuana and alcohol...

I totally understand the media frenzy and how off-balance they are-- a few weeks ago, you would have thought the most pressing question for humanity entering 2009 was, How in the world is Oprah going to lose all that weight she regained? After being such a role model for women.

Whether or not you think the court of public opinion or media opinion is irrational, is beside the point, it is irrational at times, off-balance, slanted, but public figures and role models yes I said it, role models, not perfect people, have to walk circumspectly and play the game, or be subject to what we see now.
Maybe Michael should appear on Letterman and explain himself like Blago did?? now that was interesting.

Michael will recover, and his accomplishments and hard work hopefully will shine brighter than the Bong.

Agreed, but I think it's a shame that frenzy, fear, and particularly perception take precedent over truth and common sense in our society. If it were the other way around, maybe we would have fewer problems and conflicts in our world.