Why Republicans make sore losers

[Lynnie]

Whether it was John Wayne or John Smith, whether it was a dem or a republican, etc. etc.---

The whole idea that we were perceived as being weak is bunk, IMHO. 9-11 was being planned irrespective of how weak or strong we were militarily (in actuality or in perception). 9-11 was being planned whether we had a dem or a republican in the white house before, during or after that moment in time and irrespective of our response to attacks small or large. The religious fanatics act as they do because they are religious fanatics- the virgins await them in paradise and martyrdom is the ultimate prize...

So you have some friends in the military who have opinions. There are many in the military who have opposing opinions. So what. Because you declare something as "factual" does not make it so...

You're entitled to your opinion. The facts that I speak of are: 1993 World Trade terrorist attack and we did nothing, military bases being closed and no new training of military personnel; and, another country offering us bin Laden but our inaction set him free. I forgot 1998 US Embassy in Nairobi.....we did nothing.

The others can't be deemed fact, but I am happy to provide names....and, I wouldn't lie about a friend who is a dem stating she was glad Bush was in office as well as I would not lie about the fighter pilots I know. And, you're right as far as it could have been anyone in office during that time; however, the fact is that it was Bill Clinton. None of the facts I have stated can be refuted.

So, who cares? I care. I hope Obama keeps our military strong and I hope he protects us on 'his watch.' I want nothing but the best for this President and all of the inhabitants here.

I respect your opinion and I feel like you are equally as respectful.

 

[Winnie]

You're entitled to your opinion. The facts that I speak of are: 1993 World Trade terrorist attack and we did nothing, military bases being closed and no new training of military personnel; and, another country offering us bin Laden but our inaction set him free. I forgot 1998 US Embassy in Nairobi.....we did nothing.

The others can't be deemed fact, but I am happy to provide names....and, I wouldn't lie about a friend who is a dem stating she was glad Bush was in office as well as I would not lie about the fighter pilots I know. And, you're right as far as it could have been anyone in office during that time; however, the fact is that it was Bill Clinton. None of the facts I have stated can be refuted.

So, who cares? I care. I hope Obama keeps our military strong and I hope he protects us on 'his watch.' I want nothing but the best for this President and all of the inhabitants here.

I respect your opinion and I feel like you are equally as respectful.

I care too. I agree with you that a strong military is vital.

President Obama is making a good start by keeping so many of President Bush's policies. I really admire the way he "tweaks" them so more people find them acceptable.

 

[Geo]

You're entitled to your opinion. The facts that I speak of are: 1993 World Trade terrorist attack and we did nothing, military bases being closed and no new training of military personnel; and, another country offering us bin Laden but our inaction set him free. I forgot 1998 US Embassy in Nairobi.....we did nothing.

Hi Lynnie,

Continuing the respectful disagreement-


I have bolded your words above that I do not believe to be factual...

My understanding is that Clinton ordered airstrikes against Bin Laden. This is factually *something* and therefore makes inaccurate your statement that "we did nothing"...

No new training of military personnel? My field is technical education and the government (and in particular the armed forces) is a huge client of ours. I can assure you that the training of military personnel did not cease during the time period you reference. So again- false...

Finally- pls cite your sources and specifics on the "country that offered us Bin Laden". You might be right but show me...
You say we set him free. Was he captured?

Let's not forget that while Bin Laden was cited as a threat in intelligence reports that this was based moreso on his words rather than his actions. You have acknowlegded that we have the benefit of hindsight. But without it, you must acknowledge that prior to the successful attacks of 9-11 that Bin Laden was just another big mouth living in a cave with followers trained in the art of playing on the monkey bars (per his organization's stock training camp videos)...

The others can't be deemed fact, but I am happy to provide names....and, I wouldn't lie about a friend who is a dem stating she was glad Bush was in office as well as I would not lie about the fighter pilots I know. And, you're right as far as it could have been anyone in office during that time; however, the fact is that it was Bill Clinton.

I do not dispute that you know individuals who served who personally expressed these opinions to you. That's a fact. But it is also a fact that there are lots of military personnel who have expressed differing opinions...

None of the facts I have stated can be refuted.

Sure they can. I just refuted most of them as nonfacts...

So, who cares? I care. I hope Obama keeps our military strong and I hope he protects us on 'his watch.' I want nothing but the best for this President and all of the inhabitants here.

I respect your opinion and I feel like you are equally as respectful.

I would like a strong military too. But again- this doesn't stop terrorist attacks. I also hope we are fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to thwart attacks we couldn't otherwise have stopped (based on factors like the size/strength of our military)...

 

[Lynnie]

OK. Briefly I can respond and then get back to you later if you want.

1993 Clinton did nothing, but we did make arrests through normal channels, try and convict those who were here in America.

1995 with Oklahoma City bombing, Clinton got a little more serious regarding terrorism in general. If you recall, we didn't know this bombing was orchestrated by an American for at least a couple of days.

There were a couple of other bombings in 1996 and 1997 directed at the US.

In July 1993, Clinton ordered and approved 129 US military bases be closed. 1993 World Trade bombing happened Feb (? or was it March?) 1993. He wanted more than that closed.

1998 the US Embassy in Nairobi (and, another one, if I recall). This also was a signficant date to bin Laden as it was the date Kuwait asked us for assistance against Saddam Hussien (and, if this fact is incorrect, there is a signifcance in the date with regard to Kuwait, Hussein and bin Laden - August 7, I think was the date). bin Laden, from a psychological stand point is a riddler with the dates.

After this attack, Clinton order a few cruise missiles fired. But, didn't know where to target.

Safe Haven for countries harboring terrorists had been enacted on Sudan and Afghanistan. Sudan knew where bin Laden was and offered his arrest and extradition to the US. Clinton not only did nothing, he never responded.

1999 a US ship was bombed. He ordered naval ships in the area as well as step up the ground crew....this was Yemen.

Clinton was slow from a military respect, but ironically the military deaths of the Clinton Admin (1st term) compared to the Bush Admin (1st term) is just a little less. Clinton - about 4,300; Bush - about 5,200.

And, Geo, when my fighter pilot friend was called up in 2002, the officer in Miami told him they didn't have personnel trained on this particular aircraft.....I can't remember what it was. I will get this info. for you......or, you can believe me.

I will agree with you from the respect that religious fanatics are well - fanatics and it is possible that attacks of this nature cannot be predicted, intercepted or prevented. In all of the terrorists attacks here or on our soil, ships, etc, it has been determined that they were planned for years.

From what I understand on Sept. 11, 2001, the hijackers only received word that morning, which buildings to target.......anti-Bush conspirators would disagree with this.

There have been many articles written on how Clinton not being a stern Commander in Chief led the way for terrorists groups.

One pattern that is clear: attacks are almost immediately upon a new President in office. In 1993, Clinton had only been in office since Jan of that year - 30-60 days later we were attacked. In 2001, Bush was only in office eight mos. I so hope we never endure attacks again.

 

[Geo]

OK. Briefly I can respond and then get back to you later if you want.

1993 Clinton did nothing, but we did make arrests through normal channels, try and convict those who were here in America.

1995 with Oklahoma City bombing, Clinton got a little more serious regarding terrorism in general. If you recall, we didn't know this bombing was orchestrated by an American for at least a couple of days.

There were a couple of other bombings in 1996 and 1997 directed at the US.

In July 1993, Clinton ordered and approved 129 US military bases be closed. 1993 World Trade bombing happened Feb (? or was it March?) 1993. He wanted more than that closed.

1998 the US Embassy in Nairobi (and, another one, if I recall). This also was a signficant date to bin Laden as it was the date Kuwait asked us for assistance against Saddam Hussien (and, if this fact is incorrect, there is a signifcance in the date with regard to Kuwait, Hussein and bin Laden - August 7, I think was the date). bin Laden, from a psychological stand point is a riddler with the dates.

After this attack, Clinton order a few cruise missiles fired. But, didn't know where to target.

Safe Haven for countries harboring terrorists had been enacted on Sudan and Afghanistan. Sudan knew where bin Laden was and offered his arrest and extradition to the US. Clinton not only did nothing, he never responded.

1999 a US ship was bombed. He ordered naval ships in the area as well as step up the ground crew....this was Yemen.

Clinton was slow from a military respect, but ironically the military deaths of the Clinton Admin (1st term) compared to the Bush Admin (1st term) is just a little less. Clinton - about 4,300; Bush - about 5,200.

And, Geo, when my fighter pilot friend was called up in 2002, the officer in Miami told him they didn't have personnel trained on this particular aircraft.....I can't remember what it was. I will get this info. for you......or, you can believe me.

I will agree with you from the respect that religious fanatics are well - fanatics and it is possible that attacks of this nature cannot be predicted, intercepted or prevented. In all of the terrorists attacks here or on our soil, ships, etc, it has been determined that they were planned for years.

From what I understand on Sept. 11, 2001, the hijackers only received word that morning, which buildings to target.......anti-Bush conspirators would disagree with this.

There have been many articles written on how Clinton not being a stern Commander in Chief led the way for terrorists groups.

One pattern that is clear: attacks are almost immediately upon a new President in office. In 1993, Clinton had only been in office since Jan of that year - 30-60 days later we were attacked. In 2001, Bush was only in office eight mos. I so hope we never endure attacks again.

So what I am hearing isn't "Clinton did nothing" but rather-
you are saying you do not believe he did enough/he should have done more and that there exists some written commentary that Clinton was no "hawk". Fair enough...

I am also hearing you say that you have first hand knowledge that during this particular time period that no pilots were being trained on one particular aircraft. Fair enough...

I will agree with these "facts" but not with the ones you presented earlier. Am I being technical here? Sure. Sometimes I am a stickler on words...



Thx for keeping it cool!

 

[Lynnie]

Groovy! Semantics is always a tough one. Cheers~~~~

 

[scooterbug44]

Let's be realistic about a "reduced military making us seem weak" - we have approximately 3 million military personnel, people stationed at over 800 places in 39 countries, and the biggest military budget in the world by far!

You can say that a terrorist didn't fear reprisals, but don't try to blame it on a LACK of military spending, personnel, or equipment.

 

[30ashopper]

OK. Briefly I can respond and then get back to you later if you want.

1993 Clinton did nothing, but we did make arrests through normal channels, try and convict those who were here in America.

1995 with Oklahoma City bombing, Clinton got a little more serious regarding terrorism in general. If you recall, we didn't know this bombing was orchestrated by an American for at least a couple of days.

There were a couple of other bombings in 1996 and 1997 directed at the US.

In July 1993, Clinton ordered and approved 129 US military bases be closed. 1993 World Trade bombing happened Feb (? or was it March?) 1993. He wanted more than that closed.

1998 the US Embassy in Nairobi (and, another one, if I recall). This also was a signficant date to bin Laden as it was the date Kuwait asked us for assistance against Saddam Hussien (and, if this fact is incorrect, there is a signifcance in the date with regard to Kuwait, Hussein and bin Laden - August 7, I think was the date). bin Laden, from a psychological stand point is a riddler with the dates.

After this attack, Clinton order a few cruise missiles fired. But, didn't know where to target.

Safe Haven for countries harboring terrorists had been enacted on Sudan and Afghanistan. Sudan knew where bin Laden was and offered his arrest and extradition to the US. Clinton not only did nothing, he never responded.

1999 a US ship was bombed. He ordered naval ships in the area as well as step up the ground crew....this was Yemen.

Clinton was slow from a military respect, but ironically the military deaths of the Clinton Admin (1st term) compared to the Bush Admin (1st term) is just a little less. Clinton - about 4,300; Bush - about 5,200.

And, Geo, when my fighter pilot friend was called up in 2002, the officer in Miami told him they didn't have personnel trained on this particular aircraft.....I can't remember what it was. I will get this info. for you......or, you can believe me.

I will agree with you from the respect that religious fanatics are well - fanatics and it is possible that attacks of this nature cannot be predicted, intercepted or prevented. In all of the terrorists attacks here or on our soil, ships, etc, it has been determined that they were planned for years.

From what I understand on Sept. 11, 2001, the hijackers only received word that morning, which buildings to target.......anti-Bush conspirators would disagree with this.

There have been many articles written on how Clinton not being a stern Commander in Chief led the way for terrorists groups.

One pattern that is clear: attacks are almost immediately upon a new President in office. In 1993, Clinton had only been in office since Jan of that year - 30-60 days later we were attacked. In 2001, Bush was only in office eight mos. I so hope we never endure attacks again.

Also worth mentioning, the Northern Aliance had representatives in Washington D.C. lobbying the government to do something about the Taliban. Those pleas were ignored. Although at the time we had Clinton in the WH and reps controlling congress. So both parties are to blame. But I think the buck stops at Clinton's door.

 

[Lynnie]

Also worth mentioning, the Northern Aliance had representatives in Washington D.C. lobbying the government to do something about the Taliban. Those pleas were ignored. Although at the time we had Clinton in the WH and reps controlling congress. So both parties are to blame. But I think the buck stops at Clinton's door.

I know. We'll just let the rumblings continue.......

 

[Lynnie]

Let's be realistic about a "reduced military making us seem weak" - we have approximately 3 million military personnel, people stationed at over 800 places in 39 countries, and the biggest military budget in the world by far!

You can say that a terrorist didn't fear reprisals, but don't try to blame it on a LACK of military spending, personnel, or equipment.

All of that is probably exactly right.

However, military bases were closed. A large percentage. Perhaps, Scbug, terrorists take the perceived path of least resistance. Numerous bombings from 1993 to 1999 specifically targeted at the United States.

Maybe in 1993 there weren't enough lives lost. Clinton/John Wayne told Americans to 'Be Calm.' It was a terrorist attack. And, he did nothing. We made those arrests through normal channels of law enforcement.