Should public schools paddle kids?

[NoHall]

Susan--I agree with what you were saying. I work with 7-12th grade boys, so I don't have the situations you described very often. It would be awful to not be able to hug a child who needed hugging.

Even so, I had an 18-year-old come to my office (where I keep the doors wide open if a student is present) and say, "Ma'am, I don't care what the rules are. Now that I'm graduating, I need a hug!" I hugged that sweet boy. I find other ways to take care of my sweet boys (who live away from their mamas!) I keep a great big overstuffed chair in my office that gets more use from my students than it does from me. One spent an hour one day crying on my office floor because some dumb girl broke his heart. Girl Scout cookies are a good substitute, too. Surfing YouTube (they don't have internet access in the barracks) for funny, clean videos is a good comfort.

Sometimes I want to hug them (even though they're big boys!) but there are ways to hug their hearts when they need it.

I was spanked many a time and 1) never doubted that my parents loved me 2) always earned/deserved it. We could be real little sheets sometimes and a spanking was deserved and just one of the many ways we could be punished. Losing TV or video games, cleaning up the dog poo in the yard, various other manual labor, losing allowance, and missing out of funn stuff were other disciplinary actions.

Time-outs or understanding talks about what we had done wrong had no effect on us whatsoever and just elicited eye rolls. Basically we had no respect for adults who didn't have the cojones to discipline us or their own kids - we saw it as weakness.

At age 7, I got in trouble for smacking another kid - I knew his mother wouldn't do a damn thing to punish him, so I did. Last I heard she had made his liquor store robbery go away by paying off the store owner and was convinced that his academic failings in college were due to a "learning disability" - strange since he was so "gifted" until she needed another excuse for him. :roll:

I have no tolerance for child abusers, but a swat on the behind from a parent's hand to correct behavior is not child abuse, it's discipline. If you don't agree w/ spanking and have a well behaved child/children, I respect your decision, but IMO many brats would benefit from it.

One of my BFFs, a family therapist (and IMHO a wise woman!), uses "the spanking spoon." It's actually a simple Rubbermaid spatula. It won't leave a mark, won't injure the child, but it will smart like de debil on a fat little leg. I doubt she ever really used it on her oldest child more than once or twice, but she kept it in her purse at all times. I saw her son change his behavior in a split second when he saw Mommy put her hand in her bag.

Her other method reminds me of the behavior modification rubber band that smokers use. She will flick the child on the back of the ear. Once again--no real chance of wounding, scarring, or permanent injury but it hurts like the billy-oh. Convenient for grocery store tantrums. I mentioned it at dinner one night and my 67-year-old father's eyes got huge: "Mama did that to us kids, and--Oh!--we straightened up right quick!"

 

[NoHall]

I have followed this thread with extreme interest and noted the different points of view presented. As many are aware, I am not great on what is posted on the internet, in articles or books as "pure fact" instead relying on my own experiences, results and learnings to form my very firm opinions and actions, whether they appear to others to be right or wrong. The only thing I can say for sure is that they will not be intentionally criminal.

My butt has long ceased hurting from the paddlings and spankings administered to me by my wise, but uneducated father. The lessons I learned as to why I was receiving such corporal punishment, however, remain with me to this day.
We had corporal punishment in our schools clear through high school. It was not administered by a teacher but by the principal and the parents were notified. The last thing I wanted was to be punished at school because I knew the results I would receive at home would be twice as bad.
It is my definite opinion that the Dr. Spock era was the beginning of many of the problems we have today. There was plenty of love in my family but there was also a strong sense of disipline, and yes, it included paddling. That went for most of my childhood friends as well.
I don't pretend to have the answers to our problems today. What I do know is that I was raised in a different time and with a different attitude of parenting than I see in today's society. I only know it, for the most part, worked for most of us. My life has been one where I do not have to depend on others for my existence, fairly fruitful and overall enjoyable. My children, who also were spanked when as parents we thought it was justified, are also successful and happy adults who have produced disiplined, reasonable and happy grandchildren.
To sum up. I see nothing wrong with corporal punishment but I realize I was raised in a different time and era. One, by the way, that was the greatest our nation has ever known.

The problem I see with the most troublesome students in my classes has to do with parents who won't be parents. They want to be buddies--they want their kids to like them.

I'm not the first one to say this, but I think it bears repeating--kids don't need the adults in their life to be their buddies. They need them to be adults. They need structure. I actually have students who come to my office telling me that they wish our school was stricter. They want to know that someone is taking care of them. They have friends already. I think that is where our generation has failed and where our parents and grandparents succeeded.

 

[scooterbug44]

At the risk of going off topic, something needs to be said about about the greatest era. A large portion of the population, mainly women and minorities, were denied civil rights, and did so in silence. I guess as long as they kept their mouths shut, things might have seemed really great for the rest of us, but try putting yourself in their shoes. How great would things be then? So maybe things were great, but they certainly weren't right. Oh! and I shudder when I think about the treatment of the mentally ill. Lobotomies, Thorazine, electroshock therapy all in inhumane primitive stages. I think "greatest error" might be more fitting for those times. Let's not ever go back to them.

No time is perfect - look in the dark corners of any society or time and you will find something distasteful. That doesn't mean something can't still be "great" - which IMO that generation certainly was!

 

[scooterbug44]

The problem I see with the most troublesome students in my classes has to do with parents who won't be parents. They want to be buddies--they want their kids to like them.

I'm not the first one to say this, but I think it bears repeating--kids don't need the adults in their life to be their buddies. They need them to be adults. They need structure. I actually have students who come to my office telling me that they wish our school was stricter. They want to know that someone is taking care of them. They have friends already. I think that is where our generation has failed and where our parents and grandparents succeeded.

One of my brother's friends used to love to come to our house because my parents were better parents to him than his own. They told him his performance in school/behavior was unacceptable and he needed to do better and shape up, they paid attention to him when he talked and told him he was full of BS, they made him eat what they served, they corrected his manners, scolded him for salty language, and they made him come over and help w/ projects like taking the pier in and out. I think my parents were the only adults (aside from the teachers) who knew what his grades were too - he brought them his report cards.

He hated it so much he gave MY mother cards on her birthday and Mother's Day.

Rules and discipline have never been a barrier to having funn in my world. I always tell the kids that as long as we follow a couple rules we will have MORE fun and can push the limits........and usually get them to behave better than their parents can. Sometimes they will test me on it, but as soon as they realize that I mean what I say and will follow through w/ consequences we have a great time - largely because I pay attention to them and am a goofy kid at heart myself.

 

[NoHall]

One of my brother's friends used to love to come to our house because my parents were better parents to him than his own. They told him his performance in school/behavior was unacceptable and he needed to do better and shape up, they paid attention to him when he talked and told him he was full of BS, they made him eat what they served, they corrected his manners, scolded him for salty language, and they made him come over and help w/ projects like taking the pier in and out. I think my parents were the only adults (aside from the teachers) who knew what his grades were too - he brought them his report cards.

He hated it so much he gave MY mother cards on her birthday and Mother's Day.

Rules and discipline have never been a barrier to having funn in my world. I always tell the kids that as long as we follow a couple rules we will have MORE fun and can push the limits........and usually get them to behave better than their parents can. Sometimes they will test me on it, but as soon as they realize that I mean what I say and will follow through w/ consequences we have a great time - largely because I pay attention to them and am a goofy kid at heart myself.

Exactly. When you say to a kid "I say what I mean and I mean what I say," they hear, "You care enough about me to invest in me."

I think I like the Scooty Parents!

 

[beachmouse]

At the risk of going off topic, something needs to be said about about the greatest era. A large portion of the population, mainly women and minorities, were denied civil rights, and did so in silence.

Every time I see an episode of 'Mad Men', I thank the Lord that I didn't come of age in the 1960s.

 

[ShallowsNole]

Gee, I hope ShallowsFuzz doesn't see THIS thread.

Anyone know what a "razor strop" is? His grandma still has hers...

 

[seagrovegirl]

SN.......Mr Askew paddled me in front of the class in the 8th grade....I had a teacher knock my deck over in the 3rd grade because I didn't say "Ma'am" and Mr.Hulon (sp?) paddled me in the 11 th grade for skipping. I will never forget the "out- line" of handprint in the vice principals office 's counter where one was to bend over. He'd say " belly up", "put your hands in the out-line and bend over". Welcome to Freeport School in the 70's.....

The only time I wasn't paddled and should have (maybe) was the last day of school in the 10th or 11th grade, I threw a water balloon down the hallway and it hit a flourescent light on the ceiling and burst over Mrs. Canadays' head....Mr Hulon saw me do it and yelled my name and said " to the office". I knew I was in trouble. He sits in his big boy chair, knowing I am squirming about being in trouble, and he starts to crack up...I mean laughing!!! He says "Crawford (that's what they all called me because my big brothers proceeded me)....why did you do that?...more laughter...then he says "get the hell out of here and have a great summer".......poor Mrs. Canaday....I know some of you out there know her....then you know why Hulon was so happy.......hell, I was the HERO....

Great memories, that Freeport.

 

[Bobby J]

SN.......Mr Askew paddled me in front of the class in the 8th grade....I had a teacher knock my deck over in the 3rd grade because I didn't say "Ma'am" and Mr.Hulon (sp?) paddled me in the 11 th grade for skipping. I will never forget the "out- line" of handprint in the vice principals office 's counter where one was to bend over. He'd say " belly up", "put your hands in the out-line and bend over". Welcome to Freeport School in the 70's.....

The only time I wasn't paddled and should have (maybe) was the last day of school in the 10th or 11th grade, I threw a water balloon down the hallway and it hit a flourescent light on the ceiling and burst over Mrs. Canadays' head....Mr Hulon saw me do it and yelled my name and said " to the office". I knew I was in trouble. He sits in his big boy chair, knowing I am squirming about being in trouble, and he starts to crack up...I mean laughing!!! He says "Crawford (that's what they all called me because my big brothers proceeded me)....why did you do that?...more laughter...then he says "get the hell out of here and have a great summer".......poor Mrs. Canaday....I know some of you out there know her....then you know why Hulon was so happy.......hell, I was the HERO....

Great memories, that Freeport.

I knew we had a lot in common! We both were licked by Askew and Hulon! Ha! I tell you what. I don't support corporal punishment in school because of the bruises that were left on my arse but you can sure bet we thought twice about repeating the same offense.

 

[Susan Horn]

One of my brother's friends used to love to come to our house because my parents were better parents to him than his own. They told him his performance in school/behavior was unacceptable and he needed to do better and shape up, they paid attention to him when he talked and told him he was full of BS, they made him eat what they served, they corrected his manners, scolded him for salty language, and they made him come over and help w/ projects like taking the pier in and out. I think my parents were the only adults (aside from the teachers) who knew what his grades were too - he brought them his report cards.

He hated it so much he gave MY mother cards on her birthday and Mother's Day.

Rules and discipline have never been a barrier to having funn in my world. I always tell the kids that as long as we follow a couple rules we will have MORE fun and can push the limits........and usually get them to behave better than their parents can. Sometimes they will test me on it, but as soon as they realize that I mean what I say and will follow through w/ consequences we have a great time - largely because I pay attention to them and am a goofy kid at heart myself.

We had similar experiences. The kids that teachers and other parents thought were "bad" LOVED to come to our house, b/c we had standards, and that structure, consistency, and clarity gave them a strong sense of security. If the visiting kid broke one of our rules, it was time out. At first, they acted even worse (testing), and when we remained firm on the time out, they were soothed and calmed, and started behaving properly b/c they felt safe and loved in knowing that someone was loking after them. Most of these kids were very bright, active; ALL of them were boys whom IMNSHO the schools failed by not cultivating their strengths but instead trying to get them to dumb down, sit still, color inside the lines, and plod through the cattle chute, the hump in the bell curve. (No offense to the lucky kids who were able to go easily down the middle of the curve) Most of those kids now are in constant trouble, addiction, no jobs or dead end jobs; most of their parents heartily disapproved of our firm but loving standards. But after one or two time outs, those boys LOVED me, they came over after school asking for me to give them chores or help with homework, and wanting to know what was for supper. I made them eat all their veggies before they could have seconds or dessert, and they did it, and loved it, and helped clean up the kitchen afterwards.

I think a lot of this (smart kids not being challenged, getting labeled as bad or slow, etc.) stems from the fact that our education system is
still based on a model designed to train up farmers to be factory workers. It did that very well, but those days are long gone, we are in a different era and these times call for a completely different approach to education. Plus, we know SO much more now about how the brain works, about different learning styles, different kinds of intelligence, that it is a crime that we allow this obsolete approach to continue. It is abusive, wasteful and I believe, a threat to our national security because we are no longer globally competitive. The bureaucracy is so entrenched, I don't kow how to fix it, but some folks do -- there are small pockets here and there of successful approaches to education in the toughest neighborhoods. We can turn this around.