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Gidget

Beach Fanatic
May 27, 2009
2,450
638
Blue Mtn Beach!!
Hi there - I know this was addressed to T.Cline, but I thought I would put in my 2 cents because your questions are very valid and interesting! :wave:

You: T.Cline, while I applaud your concerns about the slaughter process, I do have a question about how we fix the pollution aspect by all of a sudden having the world become vegetarian?

I don't think the world has to become vegetarian or vegan I should say. I think if people ate less animal products and raised animals locally (as was mentioned in another post) then animals wouldn't have to be raised in such inhumane conditions and we wouldn't have to raise as many. If folks just cut back - it is good for the animals, the Earth and it is quite good to get in more veggies and fruits :D


What happens with all of the animals that are associated with the pollution? They won't magically disappear? Should we slaughter them? And just how? What about all of the carcasses, what do we do with them? Not trying to be synical, but I've never heard anyone answer these questions.

I don't think the world would just POOF stop eating meat the same day and have all the animals to deal with. I think that gradually, animal consumption from factory farming would decline if people made vegan choices on occasion. I know people who HAVE to have animal products in every meal - it just isn't necessary - and we, as humans can think past ourselves. So, in answer to the question, there just wouldn't all of a sudden be a s**t load of cows standing around and no one to eat them. ;-)

To the others who are now becoming vegan because of the inhumane treatment of the animals. Several of you are in the restaurant business either by owning/operating or employment. So are you going to cease service of meat/fish ?

Some people take this very seriously and would actually consider changing their jobs - but others understand that people have choices and maybe, like me, don't eat animals at all at home, but once in a while like to frequent a place that serves up a plate of veggies and a piece of fish.

Are you going to quit supporting/working at the restaurants that continue to serve meat/fish that possibly were inhumanely slaughtered?

Some people would make that choice, but most people go for the middle ground. I really think that reason this thread was started was to have people question if there is a better way to raise animals. And cutting back is one way - I don't think anyone really suggested that everyone give up all animals. I've read so much about nutrition over the years. There aren't really any cultures that are 100% vegan 100% of the time. It doesn't have to be all or none - now for some, it is a personal choice to be 100% vegan, but I don't think that is what is being suggested.

Are you going to quit wearing products made of leather? Do you realize that they slaughter those animals in similar manners.

I make it a point to consider all of my purchases. I think about children sweating over Nike shoes, etc... too. We should all consider where all of our products come from. Not just the animal aspect.

Please understand that I fully support humane means of killing animals and absolutely despise torture. But, if you are going to be extreme in your beliefs, then you should do it fully and not just to make your conscience feel better.

That's great - I think you got the point entirely, :D Just looking for ways to make things better for the animals and if it helps the Earth then bonus time! :D

I seriously doubt that the world will quit eating meat. Stating that, there are several ligitimate groups that are working very hard in trying to change slaughter processes and animal agriculture waste pollution. I would encourage all to support them in their cause.

You are 100% correct and buying products from organic farms is a wonderful way. Getting eggs out the backyard or from a local farm. Fishing without nets, and having a veggie lunch are all great ways.

BTW, I think these were excellent questions and I hope you don't mind my 2 cents even though this wasn't directed to me personally.

G
 

Gidget

Beach Fanatic
May 27, 2009
2,450
638
Blue Mtn Beach!!
I'm pretty sure Joel Salatin (Polyface Farms) and Julian Dervaes (Path to Freedom) are making the $$ work at small scale. So are the hundreds (thousands?) of CSAs and farmers' markets springing up all over the country. So are SPIN farmers all over the planet. It can be done, it is being done, it just needs to be done more. I bought a solar cooker and some garden tools from Path to Freedom b/c I wanted to support what they're doing. I love the solar cooker, and hope to train my sons and Hub to use the tools :)

EXACTLY!!! It can be done! And the more discussions like this are going on then the more people will demand and support it. It isn't the death aspect of carnivore/vegan issue to me as much as THE HUMANE TREATMENT of alllll creatures. And also, not to waste. Local is best!

Dang it I sold my solar cooker when I was on my RAW kick lol :D:D Now I misses it :cry:

It is WAY SUPER COOL isn't it!!!
 

Gidget

Beach Fanatic
May 27, 2009
2,450
638
Blue Mtn Beach!!
Sorry, still having me a rare ribeye for dinner. :wave:

...veggie burger (those things actually make me ill BTW).

Scooterbug

I am not a huge fan of veggie burgers either btw! I am not a huge fan of feaux meats and cheeses. I prefer very simple meals of veggies and fruits instead of making soy seem like meat. BUT they have their place.

I think you having a rib eye is fine! But if you had the choice between 2 equally priced rib-eyes - one was from a typical factory farm in CA and the other was local grass fed beef slaughtered more humanely and raised w/out antibiotics, etc... you'd go for the latter I am sure! :D

Now, go have your steak lol! :D

G

I vow not to get dogmatic about this. This is purely brainstorming and sharing on ways to have a better world for all. Very simple don't you think? ;-)
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
If the price were equal, obviously I would choose the one w/ fewer chemicals that was better for the environment, but until we can find a way to get the prices closer most people are going to chose the better bargain.

I've got a conscience and preferences about how my food is raised, but I've also only got "x" dollars to spend to feed my household - like the rest of America. Toni's and other farmer's markets work w/ my budget and conscience, but I've yet to see it happen in the grocery chains and IMO that's where we need it to make the biggest impact.

I'll have a side of home grown veggies w/ the steak, but I'm not going to give up my meat - I'm a carnivore!
 
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sorry I just got back to this conversation....darn work gets in the way sometimes!!
well thank you Gidget and Susan, both of your responses totally conveyed were I am on these issues.
Being aware of where our food comes from and how its being raised along with being aware the consumer is in control and can make changes to the systems in place by making a choice about where they spend their $$.
 

Susan Horn

Beach Fanatic
EXACTLY!!! It can be done! And the more discussions like this are going on then the more people will demand and support it. It isn't the death aspect of carnivore/vegan issue to me as much as THE HUMANE TREATMENT of alllll creatures. And also, not to waste. Local is best!

Dang it I sold my solar cooker when I was on my RAW kick lol :D:D Now I misses it :cry:

It is WAY SUPER COOL isn't it!!!

Ha ha, truth be told, I have THREE solar cookers and one thermal cooker (commercially manufactured version of haybox cooking). I love them all, and have just bought a solar dehydrator/sprouter as well. Will try to remember to post on how well that works here.
 

Susan Horn

Beach Fanatic
If the price were equal, obviously I would choose the one w/ fewer chemicals that was better for the environment, but until we can find a way to get the prices closer most people are going to chose the better bargain.


Scooterbug, glad you brought that up. I recently finished reading Paul Hawken's Natural Capitalism, in which he explains how the price we pay for mainstream goods and services does not show the true cost. We are actually paying more in true cost for factory farmed foods than for organic/local, but a lot of the true cost of factory farmed food is hidden in subsidies and "externalities". There's a lot of really smart folks out there working to update our accounting methods to reflect true costs -- of course, this becomes a policy issue as well, involving the outrageous power of huge corporations to instruct gov't on how to write economic and trade policies, and it's so complex that my liberal-arts-major brain is already shorting out just trying to explain the highlights.

Anyone whose read this book and speaks economist-ese, please feel free to step in and flesh this out.

For now, for Joe and Jane Eater (that would be all of us, yes?), the reality on the ground is we shell out more bucks at the checkout for organic/local/free range than for chemical-laden tortured animal products, and I too debate with myself all the time whether to pay extra for the good stuff, pay less for the junk, or skip the meat altogether. Especially since I know that some of the stuff labeled organic is not necessarily humanely raised and slaughtered, and the chickens laying "free range" eggs may never have seen the sunshine or a live bug in grass. Besides, most of the organic produce in grocery stores came from clear across the continent (fuelish). So usually my grocery bags are filled with a schizoid mix.

In our family meals, animal flesh is rarely the centerpiece (only on the big holidays) -- it is an accent, a seasoning, the cherry on top. I'm not much for fake soy meats either, but when I can't bear the thought of a meat dog and I want something to go with my yummy homemade kraut, the soy dogs fit the bill. (The guys opt for meat, except one son who is tending towards the vegetarian side these days). Far from feeling deprived, we eat fantastic meals from foodways spanning the planet. Mediterranean and Asian cuisines are very easy to do without meat, or with just enough for some flavor. Southern comfort food is great too, with reduced fat and meat, more accent on the great veggies.

Not meaning to preach, just hoping to help someone reading this who might want to make a change and doesn't quite know how to start. I suggest rushing out immediately to Sundog Books and purchasing the most voluptuous cookbook in the world: Crazy Water, Pickled Lemons. One of my foodie pals calls this book "food porn," and she's right! It is not a vegetarian cookbook, but it has the most luscious Mediterranean recipes and photos, many of which are meatless; the ones with meat are easily adapted to vegetarian. The introductory pages to each chapter are positively rhapsodic. Another great cookbook for beginners is the original Moosewood Cookbook, though it's a bit heavy on dairy and fats for my taste these days. Easy enough to adjust or use lower fat cheese, neufchatel instead of cream cheese, etc.

Anybody else got a fave cookbook?
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
Well, I don't qualify. Picked up today: beef (tenderloin) kabobs, pork kabobs, chicken kabobs and some ginormous shrimps that I thought were lobster tails! Tons o' veggies! Half n half and eggs! Am having people over this weekend; and, I do mix up my diet with raw, nuts n berries, etc. Highly dubious I'll ever be a vegan.

But, I applaud Y'all!! :clap_1:
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,041
601
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
Well, I don't qualify. Picked up today: beef (tenderloin) kabobs, pork kabobs, chicken kabobs and some ginormous shrimps that I thought were lobster tails! Tons o' veggies! Half n half and eggs! Am having people over this weekend; and, I do mix up my diet with raw, nuts n berries, etc. Highly dubious I'll ever be a vegan.

But, I applaud Y'all!! :clap_1:

If you can watch that video and not think about what you are eating, I applaud you. You must have a shut off button that I don't have....
That was disturbing.
 
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