• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,862
9,670
Vow of poverty? The Pope takes a vow of poverty? Dangitall, I didn't know that. I would never do that.

I would vow to pull those out of poverty, not jump in with them. I am baffled....I don't get self-inflicted pain either.

If by poverty your definition means being in charge of a city/state, ultimate ruler of millions of followers, living in a palace surrounded by guards, wearing designer robes worth thousands, jewelry, private jets, and a vehicle named after you. Then yes he took a vow of poverty.
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
If by poverty your definition means being in charge of a city/state, ultimate ruler of millions of followers, living in a palace surrounded by guards, wearing designer robes worth thousands, jewelry, private jets, and a vehicle named after you. Then yes he took a vow of poverty.

Strange. Someone else mentioned he takes a vow of poverty.....I am just baffled why anyone would take a vow like this. Makes no sense.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
I misspoke - the Pope takes a vow of chastity and obedience (all priests do), but only certain orders also require a vow of poverty.

Obviously he has $$$ living quarters, clothing, transportation etc. but those are not actually his - he just gets to use them as a job perk.
 

LuciferSam

Banned
Apr 26, 2008
4,749
1,069
Sowal
Christianity is all about violence and suffering let's face it. I mean you've got parents dragging their kids off to see torture porn movies like The Passion of Christ. This sort of thing just comes with the territory.
 

Will B

Moderator
Jan 5, 2006
4,564
1,318
Atlanta, GA
Doesn't sound too far removed from wearing a Cilice like Paul Bettany's character, Silas, did in The Da Vinci Code. It's a way of offering pain and discomfort to God in a display of feeling Jesus' pain and suffering...

31bcCilice-150610.jpg
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
Catholic Priests take those vows.....not necessarily all Priests.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,893
9,500
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Actually, this practice among the most conservative of catholics goes way back. But the practice of inflicting a bit of pain isn't limited to catholicism;I think Buddhists have their version of it, too. My understanding is that the pain goes beyond symbolism, it somehow sharpens the feeling of spirituality on the sufferer's part. It makes sense when one thinks about endorphin release. Hey, I don't understand what would compel someone to run 26 miles but there must be something that makes it enjoyable.

I'm Catholic and forever I have read many bizarre and gruesome stories in the Bible and books about the lives of Saints. This is a very old practice, and widely used from way back. It is my understanding from some of the stories, self-flaggelation is a form of humble submission and relating to the suffering of Jesus on the cross. It is used to atone for sins, and also to achieve a higher state of spiritual consciousness. In any case, it is seen as a sign of holiness. But, it is an old old practice, beginning with the earliest Christian martyrs who professed their faith and sought joy in their torture and death.

If you read the life stories of St. Augustine, St Teresa of Avila, St. Francis of Assisi, Mother Teresa and so many many saints - you will find these saints to have practiced hundreds of examples of mortificaton of the flesh, from mild (wearing burlap clothing) to severe - sleeping on a bed of nails with a rock pillow every night.

This is the stuff that is incredibly bizarre to read about but also very real. No one taught me about such practices when I grew up in the Catholic church - we were taught about penances that were acceptable for the common lay folks such as fasting and denying yourself of your favorite foods or whatever. So, I didn't know about these things until I started reading about the lives of Saints - what an eye opener!

Additionally, there are many writings on moritification of the flesh by popes throughout the years, even fairly recently.

and yes skunky points out that these things are not exactly confined to Catholic spiritual practices. there are many other groups practicing self-denial and pain. but I think Catholic mortification is unique in its origins, practices and beliefs - based on biblical and historical teachings.

If by poverty your definition means being in charge of a city/state, ultimate ruler of millions of followers, living in a palace surrounded by guards, wearing designer robes worth thousands, jewelry, private jets, and a vehicle named after you. Then yes he took a vow of poverty.

:rotfl:you are a total nutcase. a vehicle named after you! designer robes!!!:lol: yes, those robes are very expensive as they are handmade using the finest materials.
 

AlphaCrab

Beach Fanatic
Sep 25, 2008
981
182
Inlet Beach
Self flagellation, Catholic or secular, is definitely a way to gets the nirvanic endorphins to kick in. The post orgasmic experience of flagellation itself brings on thoughts of a total, personal sense of well being.

I think it is really a masturbation substitute since if it involves one individual doing it to themself. Just another alternative way to see and feel God, I guess.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,893
9,500
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Self flagellation, Catholic or secular, is definitely a way to gets the nirvanic endorphins to kick in. The post orgasmic experience of flagellation itself brings on thoughts of a total, personal sense of well being.

I think it is really a masturbation substitute since if it involves one individual doing it to themself. Just another alternative way to see and feel God, I guess.

I don't agree with this AC although you may be completely on target in some cases. If you read the stories on historical figures practicing mortification of the flesh, it is definitely not pleasurable in any sense of the word. endorphins? I don't know, maybe. sexual? not in its intended form - the practice itself has strict rules on how its done, etc... bizarre as hell? totally.:wave: I personally think there are more productive ways to seek deeper spiritual connections, or more meaningful penances for your sins. but what do I know?

it is sad to me that out of this entire book on the life of John Paul II, the world is focusing on this one item that a very holy man privately practiced for personal spiritual reasons. the practice is totally bizarre, its roots are biblical (the bible is filled with a lot of crazy stuff), and its practice is widespread among the most holy figures throughout the church's history. The authors wrote about this practice of the pope's because it is considered a holy act - just one more thing that makes him holy enough for Sainthood.

on a lighter note, gives a whole new perspective to the old saying "when in rome..." yikes.
 
Last edited:

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
When I remove myself from the influences and socialization of religion and culture and look at it all as if I was an alien,,, it seems somewhat similar to the way followers of some religions choose to be "martyrs".

And this makes it seem even more nutty.

Just sayin'
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter