The American Dream

[TNJed]

To summarize my thoughts:

You cannot extinguish debt with debt. ie Paying your mortgage with credit cards doesn't get rid of the debt. In fact, it increases it! Paying our national debt with currency born from debt, exponentially increases our debt as we print more debt notes. It's a vicious circle.

Only real money extinguishes debt.

Real money is either

a) sovereign controlled currency
or
b) gold, having zero counterparty risk


I do not think we as a country have the knowledge or political willpower to abolish the Fed. I would like to see this happen, but I doubt it will happen. Therefore, I believe gold must be used to absorb some of the debt. This means I am NOT betting against the Fed. If the Fed wins this war, gold will be used. The Fed banking cartel has lots of gold. win win win.

A new sovereign currency or gold-backed Fed notes. Either way, the value of gold must rise to absorb all the wealth diluted with the currency printing. Either way, gold wins.

 

[TNJed]

How do we print debt free money?

THIS is the very point most don't realize. We have been chained to this scam for so long we assume debt is inherent to money. Money is whatever the government says it is. As long as it's supply is controlled. And control of sovereign debt will come in the form of Congress who would take their marching orders from the voting booth. No more shenanigans. Simple. Why, that's so crazy it just might work. It worked wonderfully before 1913.

The debt? Default on the Fed. Tell them to shove it. BUUUT, the Fed has it's tentacles all thru our political and banking system. It is the system. It's about as easy as asking the devil to shoot himself.

It's going to be a battle. Pray for Ron Paul.

Our currency is issued by the Federal Reserve. That's just a fancy name for a private bank. It is neither Federal nor a reserve. The treasury secretary calls up the Fed and says we need another $800 billion. Fed say sure, here you go, plus interest. They charge us rent to use THEIR currency. That is why all the bills in your wallet say "Federal Reserve Note."

It is not OUR money. It is NOT US money. It is the Feds money. However, we can simply print our own money. More than can, we must, according to the Constitution. We don't have to pay interest for this privilege. It's our GOD GIVEN RIGHT! The fact that people don't see this and aren't absolutely up in arms about it makes me realize how it has been able to exist for so long.

Watch the Wizard of Oz video I posted above. He explains all this very very well. He, like yourself, doesn't subscribe to a gold back currency. Though he believes gold/silver will rise a lot, he doesn't think we will back currency with it. He wants us to print our own sovereign money without debt. Very informative.

edit: scooterbug, you are asking great questions. Please excuse my emotions and don't shoot the messenger Keep going down the rabbit hole and take the red pill ;-) This topic just gets me worked up every time I think about it, but then I remember there is a way out. It's so obvious it escapes us. The best way to hide a scam is in plain sight. It has become the system.

 

[Bob]

what is it about ron paul that you believe trumps the fed and it's management of money supply/rates? would you be willing to stand in line for food?

 

[TNJed]

what is it about ron paul that you believe trumps the fed and it's management of money supply/rates? would you be willing to stand in line for food?

I like Ron Paul because he is the only politician willing to stand up to the Fed. I don't believe in Ron Paul's money supply management. I believe in American citizens right to manage their own money. Ron Paul is our best hope to achieve this. This issue is paramount above all others.

What is it about the Bernanke and the Fed's system of money management that makes you think the road we are going down will be better than the same road we are on? Good money after bad? Or bad money after bad?

 

[TNJed]

And the Fed doesn't manage money. They are money changers.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Bread lines? You want to see bread lines? Food stamps, which 1-8 Americans are on, are credited electronically these days, like a debit card. They renew at 12:01am on the first of each month. Go to Walmart on the last day of the month about 11:00 pm. You'll see mother's loading carts with diapers and food. When the clock strikes midnight the bread lines form at the register. source: Walmart CEO

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130272928

 

[TNJed]

and so it begins.....


Legislation proposes Utah adopt a gold-based system


Legislation proposes Utah adopt a gold-based system | The Salt Lake Tribune

 

[scooterbug44]

No, my point was that we can't just decide to default on all our debt and start with a new monetary system debt free.

No matter what our currency is based on, we owe people/countries lots of money. And any currency "worth" is based on that debt.

Hoarding gold doesn't change that.

P.S. Ask anyone what they really want during a disaster and gold is not even in the top 5. Water, shelter, food, liquor (good currency BTW), medical supplies.

 

[Bob]

And the Fed doesn't manage money. They are money changers.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Bread lines? You want to see bread lines? Food stamps, which 1-8 Americans are on, are credited electronically these days, like a debit card. They renew at 12:01am on the first of each month. Go to Walmart on the last day of the month about 11:00 pm. You'll see mother's loading carts with diapers and food. When the clock strikes midnight the bread lines form at the register. source: Walmart CEO

Midnight Shopping On The Brink Of Poverty : NPR

you are getting a little overwrought. folks like you and i stood in line for a bowl of soup. The unemployment rate was about 3 times what it is today. people sold pencils/ apples. they literally dug ditches and raked leaves. the government sat on their hands and did little until the economy became dysfunctional. by any measure, bernanke is a student of the depression, and has averted a complete societal breakdown. feel free to express your own ideas, but understand we've been through down cycles many times in our country's history. i view the food stamp program as a positive, in that the concentration of wealth in this country in the hands of the few has never been greater. people who have little income should be able to eat.

 

[TNJed]

No, my point was that we can't just decide to default on all our debt and start with a new monetary system debt free.

No matter what our currency is based on, we owe people/countries lots of money. And any currency "worth" is based on that debt.

Hoarding gold doesn't change that.

P.S. Ask anyone what they really want during a disaster and gold is not even in the top 5. Water, shelter, food, liquor (good currency BTW), medical supplies.

I understand now. I don't have the answer to the finer points of a transition. It will take some time and some work. It will not be simple. You can be assured the government has a plan right now for Continuity of Operations.

If the Fed doesn't allow gold to back their currency then we will be forced to default on them. They don't want that of course, so they will backstop our debt with gold so that we may continue to pay on the debt. Raising the debt ceiling assures this and QEIII.

Keep in mind the US is the largest gold holder in the world by a large factor. If we adopt our own sovereign currency, the price of gold will rise enough to absorb the amount of wealth created from the printing of the previous FRNs. Once that ratio has been established, we lock the supply of our new money and it is indirectly backed by our gold stores as a promise to pay.

Liquidity and easy, high-interest money will be gone, but stability, honest accounting and financial freedom will be the result.

 

[TNJed]

you are getting a little overwrought. folks like you and i stood in line for a bowl of soup. The unemployment rate was about 3 times what it is today. people sold pencils/ apples. they literally dug ditches and raked leaves. the government sat on their hands and did little until the economy became dysfunctional. by any measure, bernanke is a student of the depression, and has averted a complete societal breakdown. feel free to express your own ideas, but understand we've been through down cycles many times in our country's history. i view the food stamp program as a positive, in that the concentration of wealth in this country in the hands of the few has never been greater. people who have little income should be able to eat.

Overwrought? You brought up a fantasy future bread line. I showed you where they are hidden in plain sight today.

Bernanke was a professor before becoming the Fed chairman. He is a student of the Feds Keynesian policy. All the ivy league schools are. That's the incubator of the puppets.

We were the world's largest creditor before now. Now we are the world's largest debtor. This time, it is different by 180 degrees.