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Misty

Banned
Dec 15, 2011
2,769
752
John G,

Ms. Meadows (like everyone else) has the right to believe in Christianity and to pray wherever she chooses as an individual. What Constitutional law has historically frowned upon is Government endorsement of one religion over another. BeachArkie summed it up succinctly..allow Christian prayer and you must open the door and allow even prayer some would find objectionable or distasteful.

As for the Nativity scene, that is a blatant endorsement of Christianity because the Courthouse lawn is not represented by any other secular adornments. There is no Menorah, no Koran, it is simply a sole display of a crèche.

While it is permissible for governments to celebrate the holiday season, there are certain limitations on holiday displays on public property. The law is fairly clear about whether or not a local, state, or federal government body is violating the constitutional principle of separation of church and state in the context of public religious displays here are some indications:

1. Is the display on government-owned property? (In this case, yes.)
2. Is the scene or symbol located inside or at the entrance of a core government building, such as a city hall or courthouse? (In this case, yes.) The Supreme Court has ruled that the government may not display nativity scenes at the entrance to core government buildings (see legal summary below), even if a Christmas tree and menorah are nearby.
3. If located on the lawn in front of a government building, is it in a “high traffic area” i.e., a busy street or intersection, or in front of a main entrance to public land? (In this case, yes.)
4. Is the crèche or religious symbol the only symbol displayed, or the predominant feature of the display? (In this case, yes.)
5. What is the proximity of the religious symbol to any other parts of the display? If the religious symbol is standing alone and other figurines, lights or signs that are part of the overall display are not located nearby, or are not within view of the crèche, it is arguably a sole display. (It is arguably a sole display.)
6. Do any signs surrounding the nativity scene contain patently religious messages such as “Gloria in Excelsis Deo”? (No.)
7. Is the manger scene or other religious symbol on public property as part of an announced “public forum”? (No.) If the display is sponsored by a private individual or entity, is there a disclaimer identifying the owner, or a sign properly alerting the public that the government does not endorse the religious message embodied in the display? Is there a written policy and a permit process for the public forum that is content-neutral? (No.) Are there reasonable time and place restrictions? (In other words, allowing a group to put up a religious Christmas display that lasts from before Thanksgiving until Easter is a problem-and that has happened!)
 

John G

Beach Fanatic
Jul 16, 2014
1,803
553
John G,

Ms. Meadows (like everyone else) has the right to believe in Christianity and to pray wherever she chooses as an individual. What Constitutional law has historically frowned upon is Government endorsement of one religion over another. BeachArkie summed it up succinctly..allow Christian prayer and you must open the door and allow even prayer some would find objectionable or distasteful.

As for the Nativity scene, that is a blatant endorsement of Christianity because the Courthouse lawn is not represented by any other secular adornments. There is no Menorah, no Koran, it is simply a sole display of a crèche.

While it is permissible for governments to celebrate the holiday season, there are certain limitations on holiday displays on public property. The law is fairly clear about whether or not a local, state, or federal government body is violating the constitutional principle of separation of church and state in the context of public religious displays here are some indications:

1. Is the display on government-owned property? (In this case, yes.)
2. Is the scene or symbol located inside or at the entrance of a core government building, such as a city hall or courthouse? (In this case, yes.) The Supreme Court has ruled that the government may not display nativity scenes at the entrance to core government buildings (see legal summary below), even if a Christmas tree and menorah are nearby.
3. If located on the lawn in front of a government building, is it in a “high traffic area” i.e., a busy street or intersection, or in front of a main entrance to public land? (In this case, yes.)
4. Is the crèche or religious symbol the only symbol displayed, or the predominant feature of the display? (In this case, yes.)
5. What is the proximity of the religious symbol to any other parts of the display? If the religious symbol is standing alone and other figurines, lights or signs that are part of the overall display are not located nearby, or are not within view of the crèche, it is arguably a sole display. (It is arguably a sole display.)
6. Do any signs surrounding the nativity scene contain patently religious messages such as “Gloria in Excelsis Deo”? (No.)
7. Is the manger scene or other religious symbol on public property as part of an announced “public forum”? (No.) If the display is sponsored by a private individual or entity, is there a disclaimer identifying the owner, or a sign properly alerting the public that the government does not endorse the religious message embodied in the display? Is there a written policy and a permit process for the public forum that is content-neutral? (No.) Are there reasonable time and place restrictions? (In other words, allowing a group to put up a religious Christmas display that lasts from before Thanksgiving until Easter is a problem-and that has happened!)


I'm not sure how your reference to Com. Meadows fits here, I never referenced her in my reply. Any time I've been to a BCC Meeting, Com. Commander does the prayer.

I don't think you actually understand my opinion on this piece. Simply put, I believe that if the BCC is to allow a "Christian" invocation, which they do, they they should also allow other "religious" invocations, when requested to do so. They have now been requested to do so.

It would be much easier to just not have a prayer before a public, governmental meeting... I don't go to BCC Meetings for a sermon, especially from a politician.

I also don't think that the county should display a manger scene at the Walton County Courthouse. Either display all beliefs symbolism or none. Again, a pretty easy solution.

I am a Christian and I look forward to celebrating the birth of my lord and savor, Jesus Christ this Decmember. I also make it a point to not push my religious beliefs on others, especially in a government / public forum. If I see an opportunity to try to help someone find Christ, I'll do so in a private way.
 

Misty

Banned
Dec 15, 2011
2,769
752
Sorry John, I'm just out of the hospital and I misread where you said Commission Members and mistakenly read it as Commission Meadows. My mistake.
 

Danny Glidewell

Beach Fanatic
Mar 26, 2008
725
914
Glendale
First I am a believer in Jesus Christ and strive to live as a Christian. I fail daily and one area I often fail at is praying as I should. But that is my fault, not the fault of anyone else and certainly not the government. No one but myself can stop me from praying before, during and after any meeting. As far as this troublemaker ( his description) from outside is concerned, he has no standing to participate in our local government as he is not a resident or property owner. When he moves here and has skin in our game we can talk further.
The nativity is another subject for another post.
 

John G

Beach Fanatic
Jul 16, 2014
1,803
553
If a Walton property owner was to support him and his "cause" by Proxy, he'd have plenty of standing...
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,665
9,505
I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to own property or reside in Walton county to make the request. Perhaps if there were a policy in place...
 
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