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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,326
1,803
Typically what beachfront owners care about is their property.

At our complexes, we have had people knock down our small signs, occupy our umbrella setups, move umbrella setups, place their canopies in front of our beach umbrella setups (against the Walton County ordinance), have no regard for small children in the area, and leave cans and trash as a regular part of their day. And as responsible property owners, we clean up after them.

It's not everyone that does this, but enough to cause an issue of safety and security. When you are not in control of your property, you are not in control of the situations that arise.

And the beachfront owners still have 100% of the LIABILITY if someone is injured on their property. Every good citizen should recognize, understand and assist with that issue. But the entitlement mentality will not allow that to process.

Again, this is an issue for the WCC to address and make right.

I have asked them why they do not put a trolley system in place in Grayton Beach to ferry people to the State Park there if the parking is full at the park. NO answer other than "we could look into that". And nothing happens.

Two very easy steps can be taken to make sensible people happy:

- Walton County (and/or a large group of open beach supporters) buys more beachfront property for access. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

- Everyone respects the rights of private property owners.

American as it gets.
I do not see the merit in your arguments.

BFO's care about their "property". Do you care about "people" as in a family just wanting to enjoy the beach?

People knock down your signs. Try not putting up signs.

Trash on the beach. Mother nature probably considers building a house on a sand dune as trash but we all must have homes right?

You want control. I get it. Makes perfect sense. Exclusive control...

Liability. Where is the data for your risk?

We have a trolley system.

Walton County has bought and is buying beach access.

You will only be happy with exclusive use. I get it. It is pretty obvious.

I don't buy that exclusive use of a limited natural resource is "American as it gets"...
 
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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,354
401
I realize that wealthy powerful people impress you and everyone else is less than.
Just stinking pathetic. Always trying to put words in my mouth with simpleton words. And never admitting to crazy and mean spirited things you say after you say them. Just more smoke being blown up everyone's rears. And there's so much, I can't even breath.

Based on the way you converse with me now and in the past, your idea of exchanging ideas leaves a lot to be desired from a "goodness and humanity" standpoint.


Back on topic....
I suggested property tax reduction in exchange for beach use a few posts ago.
Then you reply:
No I would not agree to elimination of your property taxes. I would be for reducing your property tax for that portion of the beach that is being taxed with conditions that you are not allowed to put up signs or fences. Beach behavior should have conditions yes just as your behavior...

Un freaking believable, but nice try. At least you're discussing a possible compromise. The value of the usage of private beach by the public has absolutely nothing to do with what the entire property is being taxed at. So a year's worth of beach usage by the public, IMHO, is worth far more than a year's property tax. But you're getting a little greedy based on your rationalization of the value of private beach property rental. You're still wanting something for next to nothing. With lost tourism and the value of beach front property I can guarantee the "rental" value is much higher.

Let's put it in very simple terms based on your logic. If you have a house for rent and I was interested, I shouldn't have to pay you any more to rent it for a year than what the property tax is. That sounds like a great deal to me. I'll take it!
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,326
1,803
Just stinking pathetic. Always trying to put words in my mouth with simpleton words. And never admitting to crazy and mean spirited things you say after you say them. Just more smoke being blown up everyone's rears. And there's so much, I can't even breath.

Based on the way you converse with me now and in the past, your idea of exchanging ideas leaves a lot to be desired from a "goodness and humanity" standpoint.


Back on topic....
I suggested property tax reduction in exchange for beach use a few posts ago.
Then you reply:
No I would not agree to elimination of your property taxes. I would be for reducing your property tax for that portion of the beach that is being taxed with conditions that you are not allowed to put up signs or fences. Beach behavior should have conditions yes just as your behavior...

Un freaking believable, but nice try. At least you're discussing a possible compromise. The value of the usage of private beach by the public has absolutely nothing to do with what the entire property is being taxed at. So a year's worth of beach usage by the public, IMHO, is worth far more than a year's property tax. But you're getting a little greedy based on your rationalization of the value of private beach property rental. You're still wanting something for next to nothing. With lost tourism and the value of beach front property I can guarantee the "rental" value is much higher.

Let's put it in very simple terms based on your logic. If you have a house for rent and I was interested, I shouldn't have to pay you any more to rent it for a year than what the property tax is. That sounds like a great deal to me. I'll take it!
I just read your post. You complain a lot. You complain about people. You complain about taxes. You complain about the county. You complain about me. You complain about DR. I could go on but what is the point. Really what is the point? You will never be satisfied with any sort of compromise. You will always want more. The county know this. You know this. I changed my mind about reducing your taxes. It would not help anything...
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,354
401
My only real beef with you (besides the fact you can't carry a logical thought to its conclusion) and others like you, is that you want something for nothing, same as the county.

It ain't gonna happen, no matter how loud you (and DR) scream on social media.

Instead of discussing the REAL value of sandy beach, you renege on the idea of compromise because you can't handle the truth (beach value). And then you blow more smoke by attacking me, yet again.

I've stomached enough of your "everybody should give up everthing for humanity" BS. Sounds good until it's your property. BTW, I can easily absorb all your juvenile persobal attacks on my character after my defending private property rights on SOWAL for over 15 years. Keep at it, Mr. Humanity.

It certainly appears more and more that your posts are generated by an AI chat bot trained on the goodness of humanity but has no training input on private property rights.

Back to life.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,326
1,803
My only real beef with you (besides the fact you can't carry a logical thought to its conclusion) and others like you, is that you want something for nothing, same as the county.

It ain't gonna happen, no matter how loud you (and DR) scream on social media.

Instead of discussing the REAL value of sandy beach, you renege on the idea of compromise because you can't handle the truth (beach value). And then you blow more smoke by attacking me, yet again.

I've stomached enough of your "everybody should give up everthing for humanity" BS. Sounds good until it's your property. BTW, I can easily absorb all your juvenile persobal attacks on my character after my defending private property rights on SOWAL for over 15 years. Keep at it, Mr. Humanity.

It certainly appears more and more that your posts are generated by an AI chat bot trained on the goodness of humanity but has no training input on private property rights.

Back to life.
You should listen to your own words. Who really is the one who wants something for nothing and then still not satisfied. Did you buy your home on the beach with earned income or did you inherit it? I built my home with earned income. You do not know me at all. The people going to the beach have families. Do you have children? If you do you should know that it takes earned income to raise a family. You must be caught up in the propaganda going on right now about how people are just lazy and deadbeats. Stop watching Fox News is my advice if you want to see the whole picture. Same with most of all the media outlets. They will think for you. Talk to those people going to the beach. You might find something very different than your fear of "people wanting something for nothing". I get it. I hear the same things you do about how federal workers are dead beats. It is non sense. I hear the same thing you do about people who use federal programs and don't want to work. It is mostly non sense. Did you know that people like Elon can lose a billion dollars a day and still be the richest man in the world? Yet you see the problem with a family wanting to enjoy a beautiful natural resource. What about congress wanting something for nothing. Lifetime health insurance. Many have security and black limousines and drivers who have the car warmed up or cooled off so they do not have to shiver or sweat. They should be representing you and me but the all cater to something else entirely. You are living in a fantasy world of fear of all the wrong things. Open your eyes...

One of us attacks the character of the other and one of us believe that we are more alike than not. Read my post then read your posts. You are becoming unhinged and can't see the truth...
 
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Ron

Beach Lover
Jul 25, 2007
74
24
During the most recent meeting of the Walton
County Board of County Commissioners (BCC), at the behest of BCC Vice Chair
Dan Curry, Interim County Attorney Clay Adkinson gave board members his legal
interpretation of House Bill 1622 regarding customary use of the beaches, which
was recently passed by the Florida Legislature.

Attorney Adkinson stated, “So, to directly answer your question, what happens on
day one after the governor signs this bill? The simple answer is, legally, nothing
changes on the Walton County beaches.”

Adkinson reminded everyone that the Walton County Customary Use case had
been scheduled for trial in the summer of 2023. Certain parts of the case were

settled while certain parts of the case were dismissed. However, certain parts of the
case were tried through summary judgment proceedings, with judgments entered in
January and February of 2024.

“The Legislature has repealed a prior bill that passed – but the Legislature does not
undo the legal significance of that case,” said Adkinson. “So, it’s very important to
recognize that this bill has a profound effect on any city or county in the state of
Florida for which customary use litigation has not already occurred. But for Walton
County, ours has,” he added. “And so, what happens on day one? Nothing.”

However, Adkinson noted that the bill does have immeasurable impact and opens
the door on what this board has already discussed was its ultimate intention – to
look at having as much of a uniform set of public use rights on our beaches as
possible.

“We broadly have that in Miramar Beach, from Topsail to the county line going to
Okaloosa. That’s because there’s an erosion control line (ECL) that was established
following a beach restoration or beach renourishment project,” said Adkinson.

“When that ECL was established by state law, all lands lying seaward of that ECL
inured to the state and the benefit of the public. That case has been litigated and
gone all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court from Walton County and Florida
Department of Environmental Protection (DEP). Walton County and Florida DEP
prevailed.”

In other words, the public has a right to be seaward of that ECL. Walton County
does not generally allow vending seaward of the ECL. Current vending permits
also prohibit such activity. If a vendor is acting to remove or block the public, just
in general, from land seaward of the ECL, they are out of bounds.
So, what did the bill do?

Attorney Adkinson stated that the bill recognized that Walton County has a
‘critically eroded’ shoreline. More importantly, the bill recognized that the state has
officially taken the position that it does not require the inclusion of a public
dedication or a public easement as part of any beach restoration project.

Adkinson further explained, “It’s very well-known that the county has over $60
million allocated from one of our beach renourishment (sales tax) pennies; there’s
over $60 million of federal funds allocated to match that for our hurricane storm
damage reduction plan. “

So, where are we now?
Adkinson explained that, because of prior direction from the board, “the county is
continuing to move forward on our hurricane storm damage reduction plan and all

beach restoration or renourishment opportunities, under the very simple concept
that if there is not a beach to use, because it goes away in a storm, there is
necessarily going to be no public use rights. But the more beach there is, especially
with an ECL, all those lands seaward create more public use rights,” he said.

“So, what this bill does for Walton County specifically, is creates a path for us to
work toward renourishment, restoration, and similar terms, that would establish an
ECL, hopefully from county line to county line, so that we can make use of those
federal monies before they expire,” he said, “and that we can do so without the
hurdles that previously blocked this type of project from happening back in 2016.”

Adkinson then answered questions about the establishment of a definitive ECL and
how both the public and law enforcement would be able to ascertain where the
ECL is without additional markers or signs.

“We did just go through a very detailed survey process and are actively uploading
that survey data ... Based on the new survey – because we have more data points –
such as where a boardwalk stops and we can now measure more footage, we can
dial that number in. The idea is, we want to shrink that (+/-) 15 feet (margin of
error) to get it almost as exact as possible,” he replied.

Adkinson went on to say, “That ECL was established well over a decade ago.
We’re getting back almost 20 years ago now. What we’re doing now by having
these data points on the surveys ... is the ECL that will be established as part of
any future project, is going to have a higher level of definition attached to it than
what was previous. A lot has changed in the last 17 or 18 years ... but once that
GIS data set is uploaded, I think its going to dial it in even tighter than Miramar
Beach and we’re going to have less margin of error.”

Adkinson concluded by saying, “This, for us, is not the first step in re-establishing
and restoring public use rights across more of our beaches – we have already taken
those first steps – but this is a huge assist from our legislative delegation in the
Florida Legislature to help us with that.”
 

Beauford

Beach Lover
Jun 23, 2015
128
76

As waves lapped against the shoreline this spring, Walton County resident Sara James Day was discussing the fight over public beach access when a property manager told her she had to move.

“You know you’re on private property,” he told Day.

“No, we’re in the wet sand today,” Day responded. She had walked directly to the shore through a public beach access parking lot.

Day then spent nearly 30 minutes arguing over how close to the water someone must be in Walton County to be on a public beach instead of private property.

But the battle wasn’t new. The fight over one Gulf county”s sugar white sand has moved from the beaches to the courtroom and back to the halls of Florida’s Capitol seven years after lawmakers tried to settle the issue.

Now the Legislature is reversing course, passing a bill to repeal a 2018 law governing the establishment of beach access.

Even if Gov. Ron DeSantis signs the bill, the fight over beach access is unlikely to end in Walton County — or anywhere else in Florida, where growing populations and eroding beaches create arguments over invisible lines in the sand in one of the nation’s most-visited states. And as summer’s heavy beach traffic arrives, tourists and locals alike may be left confused and aggravated in areas that rely on visitor dollars as an economic engine.

Two former state Senate presidents, Don Gaetz (R-Crestview) and Kathleen Passidomo (R-Naples), voted against the reversal measure, SB 1622. Both predicted little will change.

“I believe the Hatfields and the McCoys will continue to fight in Walton County,” said Gaetz, who previously represented the area in the state Senate.

Passidomo sponsored the Senate version of the 2018 legislation, HB 631, which she describes as “good policy” designed to help establish legal beach access. She said there will be more lawsuits once the law is repealed.

“I think the county is going to pass an ordinance, then the property owners are going to file a suit,” Paissdomo said. “And they’ll be back where they started.”

The wider battle over access

Walton County isn’t the only place where people are arguing even about where a visitor can stand. That’s because it’s not clear on the beaches or in state law where the public is or is not allowed.

The Florida Constitution says beaches below the mean high water line are public land. That’s a relatively narrow strip of land on most beaches.

The Florida Supreme Court in 1974 expanded public access to the beach — in theory.

The state’s high court said access exists under the “customary use” doctrine from English common law. The court said access to dry sandy beaches must be based on recreational use that has been “ancient, reasonable, without interruption and free from dispute.”

Beach access advocates frequently argue the ruling established a public right to beach access.

But property rights lawyers claim — without success so far — that Florida’s customary use doctrine is unconstitutional and doesn’t represent established case law.

In 2016, Walton County adopted a beach access ordinance based on customary use. Property owners sued, arguing access should be determined on a case-by-case basis for each individual parcel of property or a small group of lots.

After a federal court upheld the ordinance, current U.S. Ambassador to Israel and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee was among the property owners clamoring for action. They said rude beachgoers were using their property to hold parties late into the night.

Passidomo sponsored the legislation in 2018 that rescinded Walton County’s ordinance and required local governments to seek judicial review on any property where customary use access is declared.

While she claims the bill was meant to protect beach access, critics argued the Legislature was siding with rich property owners at the public’s expense.

Then-Gov. Rick Scott, who was running for the U.S. Senate, faced a backlash after signing the bill. He blamed the Legislature for creating “considerable confusion” and issued an executive order he said would keep beaches open.

Some beach advocates said the opposite has happened, just as they predicted.

Not a day at the beach

In the Florida Panhandle, Walton County was tied up in a legal morass as they sought judicial review of more for public access on nearly 1,200 beachfront parcels and spent about $8 million in legal fees.

County Attorney Clay Adkinson said the county notices required by the 2018 law triggered opposition from many beachfront owners who in the past wouldn’t have challenged public access.

And beachfront owners have pushed to block public access in other areas since the law passed.

In Pinellas County, the tiny beachfront town of Redington Beach adopted an access ordinance in 2018 just prior to the new state law taking effect. Beachfront owners sued but lost in state courts.

They then sued and won in federal court but that was overturned when the town challenged the ruling before the 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. The town won at the district level again in 2024, but the landowners are appealing again.

In Franklin County, property owners on Alligator Point erected signs after 2020 saying their stretch of beach was private. By 2024, the signs had been damaged or removed.

In 2022, the towns of Palm Beach and Ocean Ridge had put up no trespassing signs in response to the law, according to the Palm Beach County chapter of the Surfrider Foundation.

The signs in Ocean Ridge “clearly intimidated beach goers who were on a public beach access pathway to the ocean,” the Surfrider chapter said on its website.

In Walton County last week, visitors to Santa Rosa Beach were greeted by signs warning against trespassing on private property even though they were walking through a public access that is about 30 feet wide.

Day seemed prepared when a community services officer arrived after the owner’s complaint. Her chair was much closer to the water than to any of the three-story homes.

She pointed out lines on the sand that reflected the high tide line further away from the water than where she was sitting.

“I’m not going to debate what’s wet sand,” officer J. Guard told Day, insisting she move about 18 inches closer to the water in response to the property owner’s complaint.

Jakki Davis of Memphis, Tennessee, asked the officer what to do if a child in their group repeatedly wandered over the line.

“We’ve been coming here 26 years — this is sad,” she told POLITICO. “We didn’t know you could own the beachfront.”

A county confronts wave of concern

At a meeting that afternoon in DeFuniak Springs, County Attorney Adkinson, when asked by a county commissioner what will happen if the 2018 law is repealed, answered that “nothing changes” on their local beaches.

Adkinson explained that the county has entered into settlements with landowners that won’t change as a result of the Legislature’s reversal. He said the legislation will have a “profound effect” on other cities and counties considering beach access ordinances, but not Walton County.

But he also said the bill is a “huge assist” that could resolve the beach disputes in the future. The bill establishes that public access is allowed in areas where beaches are widened with new sand.

“This for us is not the first step in reestablishing and restoring public use rights across more of our beaches,” he said. “We’ve already taken those first steps.”

But other speakers said Walton County could be doing more now to protect tourists and vacationers even after the 2018 law is repealed.

“How are we going to prevent the chaos from coming back?” Commissioner Brad Drake asked. “People [are] saying I can set my towel here? ‘No you can’t.’”

Dave Rauschkolb, a surfer who owns a beachfront restaurant in Walton County, called the problem “almost unmanageable” and said the county must stop homeowners from intimidating visitors.

“They say, ‘You can’t sit here, you can’t sit there,’” Rauschkold said. “Well, those [beach visitors] folks are not going to come back. They’re like, ‘We’re not coming to this beach any more.’”


Day told the commission that she was told by an officer, “If you’re not in the tide you’re not in the public space.”

Adkinson interjected that he didn’t agree with the officer’s interpretation of where the public beach exists.

“This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this,” the county attorney said. “And every time it’s been addressed as, ‘We’re sorry that’s not what they’ve been instructed to do.’”

Other commissioners said signs are needed to tell beachgoers clearly where they can be and where they can’t be.

“In the past we had like 20 feet from the wet sand that was public,” Walton County Commissioner Donna Johns said. “Why that’s gone is beyond me.”

Supporters and critics alike of the 2018 legislation say repealing it now will restore the status quo on beaches statewide that existed then, but not necessarily the peace.

“These are already existing public rights,” said Katie Bauman, Florida policy director for the Surfrider Foundation. “The local ordinances were protecting that existing right.”

“I would say it makes it a little easier for the local governments to try to establish customary use,” said J. David Breemer, a senior attorney in California with the Pacific Legal Foundation. “But it certainly doesn’t give them a blank check or easy path to do that.”

His property rights law firm is backing property owners in Redington Beach and supported the 2018 law.

State Sen. Jay Trumbull, sponsor of the Senate legislation this year, said most messages he gets from residents of his district are about beach access. He recalled walking and fishing unimpeded along Walton County’s beaches as a boy. But his children cannot do that now.

“What we are trying to accomplish is give people the opportunity to utilize Florida’s most significant resource, our beaches, and allow those to be for everyone and not a select few,” Trumbull said.
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,354
401
Dave Rauschkolb, a surfer who owns a beachfront restaurant in Walton County, called the problem “almost unmanageable” and said the county must stop homeowners from intimidating visitors.

“They say, ‘You can’t sit here, you can’t sit there,’” Rauschkold said. “Well, those [beach visitors] folks are not going to come back. They’re like, ‘We’re not coming to this beach any more.’”
In all the years that I've been vocal on private property rights, I've learned that if an article quotes Dave Raushkolb, then the article is most likely highly biased. But then again, it's that spin that "most people" want to believe. So as long as there's an audience, the so called "journalists" will continue to pump out disinformation.

Dave says the problem is "almost unmanageable". He says, "the county must stop homeowners from intimidating visitors." Asking an uninvited person to leave your private property is not intimidation. However there are a few people who feel entitled to private based on rhetoric professed by Dave and many, like him, who spout the same kind of rebellious speech. Those people are the ones that typically refuse to leave, argue with the property owner / representative and then must threatened with trespassing charges.

Dave was seen talking the other day to the BCC, crying about how his business has declined. And somehow, this is supposed to translate to private property owners giving up their rights? Of course the very high prices associated with beach rental and restaurants in our area have nothing to do with that, right? Even beach front rentals have declined. What's the reason there? Definitely not the lack of private beach.

Vacation prices in Walton County have continued to increase rapidly. Tourists are balking at that cost and choosing other places. Cancun is cheaper (and they have private beach, BTW). It started happening to me in 2022 - first time that that my beach front property ever had empty weeks during the summer in 20 years.
 
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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,354
401
Another comment on the article. Once again, CU has been litigated and is now dead. SB1622 does absolutely nothing for that cause in Walton County. But Trumbull puts it in the bill for one purpose only - to appease the constituency. Uninformed people think just because a county can now claim customary use, that it will stick and become permanent law - absolutely not. Property owners would then be the ones who take the county court as opposed to the other way around that happened in Walton County in 2018. A government entity must then PROVE that there has been customary use. Of course, Walton County failed to do this. Because of this outcome, IMHO, the cards are stacked against any other government agency trying to do the same thing.

However, the county is now focusing their efforts on the idea of beach nourishment to create public beach. It failed in 2015 because they couldn't get construction easements from property owners. 161.141 F.S. which came into effect in 2016 sets a path for the county to forcibly get construction easements via eminent domain proceedings.

If this is an easy way to force beach nourishment, why didn't the county do this first, using money they wasted losing the customary use case? I'll tell you the reason. The attorneys that the county hired fed the BCC a load of crap regarding being able to prevail on customary use because they stood to make a lot of money in legal fees. That combined with public outcry as well as Dave Rauschkolb and his Florida Beaches for All organization (which pedaled tons of disinformation, BTW, which riled up the public even more) made it impossible for the BCC to walk away from the litigation.

I'm probably giving the previous BCC too much credit, but maybe they thought this out and figured it might have been cheaper at that time to prevail on the customary use case (CU lawsuit initiated in 2018, two years AFTER 161.141 F.S.) rather going through (and paying for) almost 1200 eminent domain proceedings to be able to nourish the beach against the wishes of the property owners.

Now, Walton County has no choice but try to implement beach nourishment. The question is will the property owners bring suit against the state and the county to oppose 161.141 F.S. from using eminent domain proceedings to force construction easements on properties where the owners do not desire or believe they need beach nourishment?
 
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