Torture in Iraq

I've only met him a few times, but he's an average height fellow with dark hair and dark skin, somewhat stocky if I recall correctly.

So should we expect 30gAy to miss the answer to his question, too? :floor: I think you probably met RiverOtter, posing as the RedBar owner. 😀

Fair enough, but I know he won't answer mine since he won't even acknowledge it. I've only met him a few times, but he's an average height fellow with dark hair and dark skin, somewhat stocky if I recall correctly.

OMG! I am floored. This thread is eye opening to be sure. I honestly had no idea that people were paid to come on message boards to push Bush Administration policy.

How lame is a political idiology when it has to PAY people to push their talking points.

Again, I thank you for doing great service to expose the stupidity, and now apparently the desperation, of the right wing's agenda.

Oh and 6thgen, everybody who is a real local is laughing at your answer. Oli does not resemble your answer.

Not only do they pay people to come on message boards, they pay, via contracts with federal agencies, entire companies to publish their message as if it were legit programming....remember Armstrong Williams and the DOE?
The list is pretty long....

and, it wouldn't surprise me if they paid for law school at Regent Univeristy for people like Monica Goodling, and then placed her in the DOJ...at last count there had been 150 graduates of Regent and Liberty U in high level positions in the Bush Admin. Of course most of them have no experience, but they have the right political point of view.

It gets worse folks....

Ladies, Gentlemen, 30Gay,
I'm flattered that you think someone pays me to do this. I hate to let you down, but I'm not some secret Bush employee that's getting on sowal.com to screw with you. Your internet characters just took a dirt bike over a shark pool. I met the Red Bar owner about 4 years ago, and a few times since. I don't remember many people that I met that long ago. The only person I think that I've met that posts here that long ago had a long beard and had a brother that worked for a big burly friend of mine. I think he had recently moved down to sell real estate, but he might have been here longer. I have trouble remembering details from last month, much less 3-4 years ago. Regardless, your mention of Red Bar put me in the mood for it. I haven't been that often since Georgie left, and not because she left, but because it kind of fell of my radar. So if you internet people want to come by and see if I'm for real, I'll be there. I'll be the guy in a shirt and pants with the girl that proves he married out of his league. Have a good long weekend and we'll get back to it later.

It's easy to be 30gay and happy when you're free to go home at night and cuddle your partner without fear of being hung (no pun intended). And Bob, when exactly did these folks show fear of our projection of power ... when they blew up 200 Marines in Lebanon ... 2 embassies in Africa .. a Navy ship in Yemen ... the first or second WTC. It sounds to me like your a pacifist which is fine. But a pacifist arguing for peace is like the Romans arguing the merits of world conquest. There's nothing that can be said or done that would change the position. If I remember right, you were the anti-development, save our tree guy on Redfish Village. I'm sure you would also be opposed to nuclear power plants which means we can't break our unhealthy dependence on foreign oil (50 years ago based upon the enormous energy we created by learning to split atoms, it was said that within 10 years, the U.S. would supply 100% of the nuclear energy to the entire world - and then a movie called China Syndrome and we're stuck importing oil from the middle east and funding dysfunctional tribes). When you get elected, I'll brush up on my Arabic. BTW, the owner of the Red Bar is a big Belgium with a good looking wife.

Read my posts, the correct move is Afghanistan, and we'll have to stay there forever. Al Qaeda didn't kill the Marines in Beruit, Iran was most likely behind that, and it was payback for screwing with their country after WW2, or would you not know this?. Reagan was smart enough not to occupy Lebanon over this attack, because to do so would be as stupid as attacking Iraq for what Al Qaeda did. I am not a pacifist, I'm ex-military, Republican, mind-boggled my party has been hijacked by a bunch of bible-thumping, redneck cowboys that don't know anything about history and don't care to ever learn. They have no qualms sending blue collar kids to die for nothing, and spending hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars for another Vietnam. The fact that you can't separate these issues at this late date speaks volumes about how well thought out your position is. I guess the near meltdown at Harrisburg is an incovenience to you. Bush and his band of idiots will be gone soon, and I hope we have some intelligent people willing to clean up his mess. Thanks for pointing out that I don't like the changes in Blue Mountain Beach. Did you enjoy the clear-cut to 30A by Redfish lake? Nice!

So should we expect 30gAy to miss the answer to his question, too? :floor: I think you probably met RiverOtter, posing as the RedBar owner. 😀

Average height? :yikes:

Bob's getting sukked in by an alter ego or co-worker. :roll: :wave:

Bob's getting sukked in by an alter ego or co-worker. :roll: :wave:

Thank you for your kind response, it feels so good! More please. 2/6thGenianpartimer, please send Oli some HGH so that you can look him in the eye next time you "meet" him.

Hey 6thGen, Georgie is back on staff at the RedBar.

I never thought of M as being burly. :funn:Maybe I need to look up that word. :funn:He is indeed big, and I can tell you some stories about him, but I think I will save those for later. ;-)

OMG! I am floored. This thread is eye opening to be sure. I honestly had no idea that people were paid to come on message boards to push Bush Administration policy.

How lame is a political idiology when it has to PAY people to push their talking points.

Again, I thank you for doing great service to expose the stupidity, and now apparently the desperation, of the right wing's agenda.

Oh and 6thgen, everybody who is a real local is laughing at your answer. Oli does not resemble your answer.

Timmy,

I am as horrified as you by some of the posts and just so so so glad that people like you, Bob, Mango, 30Gay and others will hopefully vote in larger numbers than the rest AND most importantly (although it is probably not much consolation to americans) - people like that rarely travel and if they do it is safe and small circles and they hardly EVER live abroad so they cannot import their small minded, bigoted, 'american might makes right' attitude elsewhere.

So many people are so quick to label others they do not understand as "animals" - it is despicable and most of these people would be the first to grab their guns and supposedly defend their land and rights if another country invaded this country and tore it to shreds.

See you soon I hope!

Timmy,

I am as horrified as you by some of the posts and just so so so glad that people like you, Bob, Mango, 30Gay and others will hopefully vote in larger numbers than the rest AND most importantly (although it is probably not much consolation to americans) - people like that rarely travel and if they do it is safe and small circles and they hardly EVER live abroad so they cannot import their small minded, bigoted, 'american might makes right' attitude elsewhere.

So many people are so quick to label others they do not understand as "animals" - it is despicable and most of these people would be the first to grab their guns and supposedly defend their land and rights if another country invaded this country and tore it to shreds.

See you soon I hope!

There's that voice of moral relativism that we just need to understand muderers and savages just a little bit more. Terrorists are so cudly. I've missed you, Chickpea.

Did you enjoy the clear-cut to 30A by Redfish lake? Nice!

Who owned the property that was clear cut?

There's that voice of moral relativism that we just need to understand muderers and savages just a little bit more. Terrorists are so cudly. I've missed you, Chickpea.

6th Gen,
Please don't worry about missing me and certainly please kindly abstain from lame accusatory cliches such as stating that you think I find terrorists endearing. I am certainly not a voice of moral relativism - I have just been exposed to and lived amongst muslims and jews and christians and I would rather see the good than the bad - and I regret the constant interfering - as simple and basic as that.

And when you do grandstand and make crude statements as you have made above such as saying than any of us who happen to find this war the US instigated also condone 'murderers and savages' - well you just expose just how little minded you are. Call me a snob by all means - one does not meet the likes of you in international circles.

I am certainly not a voice of moral relativism -

"So many people are so quick to label others they do not understand as 'animals'"

I'm saying that the "people" this post was originally about are animals. Do you agree or disagree? Or do I need to understand why they want to put an iron on someone's chest? Or understand why they would sever limbs?

And when you do grandstand and make crude statements as you have made above such as saying than any of us who happen to find this war the US instigated also condone 'murderers and savages' - well you just expose just how little minded you are. Call me a snob by all means - one does not meet the likes of you in international circles.

I know you love to tell everyone how well traveled you are, how small minded I am, and how you'd never meet the likes of me in international circles, so I'll let you carry on with it, no matter how wrong you are. And I never said that those that don't agree with the war condone murders and savages, I said you do. Specifically from the statement above.

"So many people are so quick to label others they do not understand as 'animals'"

I'm saying that the "people" this post was originally about are animals. Do you agree or disagree? Or do I need to understand why they want to put an iron on someone's chest? Or understand why they would sever limbs?



I know you love to tell everyone how well traveled you are, how small minded I am, and how you'd never meet the likes of me in international circles, so I'll let you carry on with it, no matter how wrong you are. And I never said that those that don't agree with the war condone murders and savages, I said you do. Specifically from the statement above.

6th Gen,
For someone who actually seems quite smart you are unfortunately, regrettably, seemingly, small minded. Despite what you say I actually have rarely posted about my travels, etc apart from the fact that IMHO your posts really make my point. And yes, I have RARELY, if ever, met people with your opinions abroad and it is highly likely that I have lived in and visited more places than you - simple as that - the ONLY reason I say this is that the way you look at complex and nuanced issues is indicative of lack of exposure and understanding to other cultures and religions -you and others can draw your own conclusions as to whether I am right or wrong.

Like most reasonable people I dislike the acts of terrorists - suicide bombers who target innocent civilians are despicable albeit tragic individuals.

Where you and I will completely part ways and will NEVER see eye to eye is that I can somewhere deep inside relate to and understand (even if I vehemently personally disagree with their tactics) what drives these acts of ultimate desperation - people with no political voice, no economic prospects, who have lived generation after generation under oppressive rule have little to lose - and if you think for even ONE second that if Americans were forced to live as refugees, in disgusting sub-human environments, subjected daily to humiliation and degradation for decades, as let's say the Palestinians have - that they too (the Americans!) would not resort to acts of unbelievable anger and terror - you are terribly wrong.

"So many people are so quick to label others they do not understand as 'animals'"

I'm saying that the "people" this post was originally about are animals. Do you agree or disagree? Or do I need to understand why they want to put an iron on someone's chest? Or understand why they would sever limbs?

Do you agree or disagree ? Being responsible for the death 100,000 people or so is "animal" ?

Do I need to put up a bunch of pictures of maimed and mangled bodies after a bomb drops on them to illicit something of a human response from you?

When you do disagree, explain to me then why Iraqis and the rest of the Muslim world should view pictures of Iraqi bomb victims any differently than you do of whatever pics you posted?
They should be just as closed minded as you. In fact you more than anyone else on this thread should understand terrorists responses to our actions.

6th Gen,
For someone who actually seems quite smart you are unfortunately, regrettably, seemingly, small minded. Despite what you say I actually have rarely posted about my travels, etc apart from the fact that IMHO your posts really make my point. And yes, I have RARELY, if ever, met people with your opinions abroad and it is highly likely that I have lived in and visited more places than you - simple as that - the ONLY reason I say this is that the way you look at complex and nuanced issues is indicative of lack of exposure and understanding to other cultures and religions -you and others can draw your own conclusions as to whether I am right or wrong.

Like most reasonable people I dislike the acts of terrorists - suicide bombers who target innocent civilians are despicable albeit tragic individuals.

Where you and I will completely part ways and will NEVER see eye to eye is that I can somewhere deep inside relate to and understand (even if I vehemently personally disagree with their tactics) what drives these acts of ultimate desperation - people with no political voice, no economic prospects, who have lived generation after generation under oppressive rule have little to lose - and if you think for even ONE second that if Americans were forced to live as refugees, in disgusting sub-human environments, subjected daily to humiliation and degradation for decades, as let's say the Palestinians have - that they too (the Americans!) would not resort to acts of unbelievable anger and terror - you are terribly wrong.

Your arrogance knows no bounds. I'm pretty well traveled for my age, and I plan to continue to do so. Where you and I completely part ways, as you put it, is I believe in evil, and I believe in absolutes. I believe that targeting innocents and civilians is always wrong. I believe that converting others to a chosen religion by the sword is always wrong. I believe that using children as human shields is always wrong. I believe that referring to other ethnicities and ?dogs? and ?pigs? is always wrong, no matter if it is in Tehran or Selma. I believe that certain things are so absolutely wrong, vile, and repugnant, that the answer is not understanding, the answer is swift and severe punishment. I know that I'd believe that no matter how many countries I visit, no matter how many cultures I?ve been exposed to. I believe that terrorists are cowards, I believe they are evil, and I believe that Islam encourages such behavior. Oh, and the comment about no economic prospects is a non-starter, since the vast majority of suicide bombers are upper middle class.

Do you agree or disagree ? Being responsible for the death 100,000 people or so is "animal" ?

Do I need to put up a bunch of pictures of maimed and mangled bodies after a bomb drops on them to illicit something of a human response from you?

When you do disagree, explain to me then why Iraqis and the rest of the Muslim world should view pictures of Iraqi bomb victims any differently than you do of whatever pics you posted?
They should be just as closed minded as you. In fact you more than anyone else on this thread should understand terrorists responses to our actions.

It is tragic that innocents are killed during a war, like it is unfortunate that those threatening our lives hide behind them, or in mosques.