A parent's gotta vent sometimes...

[Jdarg]

Makes me look forward to next year even more. :roll:

No kidding, OL. This is probably the only time in our lives when we wish our kids would get older faster just to roar through middle school ASAP!

 

[Beach Runner]

You sound like you have a heart of gold and it was fortunate for this young man that you let him graduate. But are the classes taught by a "sentimental old fool" REALLY that difficult to merit this young man getting an "F" in ALL 3 of them if he honestly "studied" like he said?

It's probably true that he had senioritis at the beginning of the semester and didn't study. And I agree that the "calculus hates me" comment was stupid. Because he came to me for help right after midterm grades were sent (they rarely do that - normally I get the sob stories the last week of class), I decided to try to help. He was taking 4 difficult classes - most of my students take the calculus class twice, and he was taking formal language theory (a senior/graduate level class), theory of computer architecture, and advanced Java from the textbook from hell (very advanced). So that was a tough bunch of classes to be taking simultaneously.

I let *all* of my students retake the tests that semester, not just him, and they all welcomed the chance. I have a reputation for being a difficult teacher, and doing this (which was two years ago) didn't damage that reputation.

What really ticks me off is when students come to me crying about their grade and begging for extra credit during the last week of class. Excuse me, they should have worried about this earlier in the semester when they could have turned in the work I assigned or come to me for help so they could have done better on the tests all semester. I have no sympathy for this.

 

[Paula]

Sounds like the student was given the opportunity to take the exam again and still had to study in order to pass. It also sounds like the student didn't have a history of poor performance, had taken some risks to take more difficult classes, and had a lot of other stuff going on in his life. All students had the opportunity to study more and retake the test (and the professor had to commit to grading more which is always additional work with no pay for a teacher). Ideally, this is the kind of student who learned a lesson, was very appreciative (and will be even moreso as he gets older and has kids in school himself someday), and no harm was done to anyone (except the professor who had to do more work for no additional pay and no professor I know volunteers to do this unless s/he really believes the student deserves the support). Of course, the student may have been a nasty kid who just blew off a semester, told a sob story, and wasted the professor's time. But, I'd have to trust Beach Runner's instincts as an experienced professor to determine when a student is taking advantage of a situation and when a student really needs help. Even if Beach Runner was wrong and the student really was taking advantage of the situation, then I still think it was wise to err on the side of helping a student in trouble.

I failed a university exam once and was given the chance to make it up. In my case I didn't study as much as I should have, and had to get myself a tutor to get up to speed. It was more work having to take the exam twice than to have studied harder for it the first time. I remember the experience as a humbling learning experience -- I thought I could glide through and I was very wrong. Not a bad lesson to learn and it was an exception rather than the norm for me. I'm thankful that the professor let me retake the exam -- and he's probably pleased to know that I'm a college professor, too, now. So, Beach Runner, I'm definitely supportive of you on this one!

 

[Teresa]

But, I'd have to trust Beach Runner's instincts as an experienced professor to determine when a student is taking advantage of a situation and when a student really needs help.

Yes! thank you Paula. I've been following this segment of the thread and wanting to comment on this. The teacher is a professional that must judge each situation - students are going to have many issues and they are going to need some help along the way. I think its the teacher's job to help the student if possible and that student will either step up to the plate and do what is necessary to make the grade, or they won't. The teacher must make these decisions and provide support as needed, within reason. And, I think this applies to all levels of education. this is why I was horrified to hear about Jr High policies that are so unbending for children (they are still children!).

I know public school teachers have a hard job, low pay, and not a lot of respect from parents much of the time (I have noticed some parents consider teachers second class citizens, at least in how they address them -we need to keep this in mind when we approach them because they may be automatically defensive because of how they are spoken to by other parents). Perhaps they are just trying to do their job, sticking with policy, trying to be politically correct, and not thinking about how they can truly make a difference in their students' educational lives.. They are literally teaching to the test these days and they have scores to achieve. In some schools, the student isn't really the focus anymore, it's the test score, the school's report card.

So, I think there are many root problems here that contribute to our children's educational experience. absences and homework assignments are probably minor stuff. A good teacher will insure the students learning experiences are positive and will work with children to make sure they do their assignments and LEARN from them, even if a day late or so. Reasonable consequences are still important for our children, when they are not making good choices in how they perform in school.

 

[Beach Runner]

So, Beach Runner, I'm definitely supportive of you on this one!

Thanks for the kind words.

I, too, remember not being given a break as a student. My father dropped dead of a heart attack the Saturday before finals at the end of my freshman year at Tulane. One of my professors wouldn't give me an incomplete so I could take the exam later. I had to fly from ATL to NOLA after the funeral to take her exam. Needless to say, due to my emotional state, I didn't didn't too well on the exam.

I try to apply the Golden Rule. Oh, yes, I'm sure I get scammed sometimes. But I'd rather get scammed occasionally than be unfair to someone who has a legimate problem. I know the real world is not like that, but that's how I roll.

 

[Teresa]

I try to apply the Golden Rule. Oh, yes, I'm sure I get scammed sometimes. But I'd rather get scammed occasionally than be unfair to someone who has a legimate problem. I know the real world is not like that, but that's how I roll.

any teacher who truly cares about teaching will agree with you here! it's called professionalism.

 

[Paula]

Thanks for the kind words.

I, too, remember not being given a break as a student. My father dropped dead of a heart attack the Saturday before finals at the end of my freshman year at Tulane. One of my professors wouldn't give me an incomplete so I could take the exam later. I had to fly from ATL to NOLA after the funeral to take her exam. Needless to say, due to my emotional state, I didn't didn't too well on the exam.

I try to apply the Golden Rule. Oh, yes, I'm sure I get scammed sometimes. But I'd rather get scammed occasionally than be unfair to someone who has a legimate problem. I know the real world is not like that, but that's how I roll.

Very sorry about your father and the professor's insensitivity. My father died same way right a week after I graduated graduate school. If my professor didn't let me retake the exam, perhaps my father wouldn't have had a chance to see me graduate - so, for that I'm doubly thankful to my professor -- I hadn't thought of that before. Ideally, with enough life experience, most of us get more compassionate with age and try to help people out. Otherwise, imagine what the world would be like with everyone being suspicious and not giving each other a second chance.

 

[Beach Runner]

My father died same way right a week after I graduated graduate school.

Ditto - sorry for you, too. Something like that really makes an impact, doesn't it? My dad had never been sick a day in his life. He died in his sleep. To this day, if my brother drops by mom's house and she's asleep, he checks to see if she is still breathing. I've never gotten over the insecure feeling I had after he died - he was our Rock of Gibraltar because mom was already flippin' crazy.

 

[Paula]

Thanks, Beach Runner. When I was growing up, it was almost "normal" that men would die in their 50's, maybe 60's. It wasn't a rare event. Sad but true. A lot of the men were smokers and (at least in our area) we didn't know a lot about preventive care and early detection. And bypass surgery was just in its infancy and not yet trusted. Thankfully, it's much different today.

Anyway, as Tootsie says, teachers learn to "read' situations and figure out the appropriate consequences for the specific situations. They are professionals and I trust they usually get it right.

 

[Cil]

Yes! thank you Paula. I've been following this segment of the thread and wanting to comment on this. The teacher is a professional that must judge each situation - students are going to have many issues and they are going to need some help along the way. I think its the teacher's job to help the student if possible and that student will either step up to the plate and do what is necessary to make the grade, or they won't. The teacher must make these decisions and provide support as needed, within reason. And, I think this applies to all levels of education. this is why I was horrified to hear about Jr High policies that are so unbending for children (they are still children!).

I know public school teachers have a hard job, low pay, and not a lot of respect from parents much of the time (I have noticed some parents consider teachers second class citizens, at least in how they address them -we need to keep this in mind when we approach them because they may be automatically defensive because of how they are spoken to by other parents). Perhaps they are just trying to do their job, sticking with policy, trying to be politically correct, and not thinking about how they can truly make a difference in their students' educational lives.. They are literally teaching to the test these days and they have scores to achieve. In some schools, the student isn't really the focus anymore, it's the test score, the school's report card.

So, I think there are many root problems here that contribute to our children's educational experience. absences and homework assignments are probably minor stuff. A good teacher will insure the students learning experiences are positive and will work with children to make sure they do their assignments and LEARN from them, even if a day late or so. Reasonable consequences are still important for our children, when they are not making good choices in how they perform in school.

Tootsie
This above is all so articulate and so true, especially the middle paragraph.

I agree about the reasonable consequences, as well. Reasonable, logical consequences are far more helpful than silly punishments which have nothing to do with whatever the child did wrong. Kids really don't *need* to grow up hating and dreading school.
Teachable moments which build character do not always have to be so grim and punitive. I simply don't think that's how a child learns self discipline.

When my kids forgot homework or worse (much worse!), I was very sympathetic. But I did not get them out of the jam they were in. We let the logical consequences, whatever they were, run their course. With the older kid, I ended up with a few grey hairs. But once he was on his own in the real world, he showed responsibility and self-discipline.