BAIPA - sleeper issue?

[6thGen]

Skunkape,
I certainly bow to your knowledge on the logistics here, but the point iof the law is that it is a step to undermine the legitimacy of abortion, which I see as the ultimate civil rights issue. The Three Fifths compromise wasn't pretty, but it undermined slavery, and in the end helped to hasten its end. This law begins to undermine the nonsense that it is a "personal female medical decision".

Again, the point of the thread is that this could be a sleeper issue. The electorate doesn't understand, or for that matter care about nuance, especially when it is employed as selectively as the junior Senator from Illinois chooses to do so.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Skunkape,
I certainly bow to your knowledge on the logistics here, but the point iof the law is that it is a step to undermine the legitimacy of abortion, which I see as the ultimate civil rights issue. The Three Fifths compromise wasn't pretty, but it undermined slavery, and in the end helped to hasten its end. This law begins to undermine the nonsense that it is a "personal female medical decision".

Again, the point of the thread is that this could be a sleeper issue. The electorate doesn't understand, or for that matter care about nuance, especially when it is employed as selectively as the junior Senator from Illinois chooses to do so.

Gotcha. Well, I am not touching the abortion issue with a ten foot pole, but this seems to be an awfully sloppy way to go about doing away with abortion.

 

[6thGen]

Not anywhere near as sloppy as the SCOTUS decision that established it.

 

[30A Skunkape]

It may actually be. I am pretty disturbed to learn about this end around to stamp out abortion. It is pathologically evil to conspire to subject neonates to pain and suffering. Period. The lay public that this law is intended to play to has no concept regarding the tenuous existence extremely premature babies have. They are frail and simply not equipped with the physiological requirements to survive on their own.

It is sick, sick, sick to play political football with innocent life. Isn't the rationale behind abolishing abortion protecting the sanctity of life in the first place? How could it make logical sense to subject innocent life to almost certain suffering? It doesn't. Furthermore, I can't think of a more tasteless violation of a human's civil liberty than to subject them to futile, painful, invasive medical treatment in the name of some damn political game.

Thats about all I have to say on this topic.

 

[6thGen]

It may actually be. I am pretty disturbed to learn about this end around to stamp out abortion. It is pathologically evil to conspire to subject neonates to pain and suffering. Period. The lay public that this law is intended to play to has no concept regarding the tenuous existence extremely premature babies have. They are frail and simply not equipped with the physiological requirements to survive on their own.

It is sick, sick, sick to play political football with innocent life. Isn't the rationale behind abolishing abortion protecting the sanctity of life in the first place? How could it make logical sense to subject innocent life to almost certain suffering? It doesn't. Furthermore, I can't think of a more tasteless violation of a human's civil liberty than to subject them to futile, painful, invasive medical treatment in the name of some damn political game.

Thats about all I have to say on this topic.

Hold on a bloody minute. You say you aren't touching the abortion issue with a ten foot pole, but come up with this? Again, the ONLY thing this law does is clarify that any child who is completely out of his or her mother, and who shows any signs of life, is afforded equal rights. If you have a problem with your legal requirements with your required care for neonates, I suggest you take it up with the legislation that addresses it. This is the same lame argument that the fair traders try to make.

 

[Bob]

i don't care for abortion, but i don't want the state to dictate policy over someone's body...it's a typical repub play. we are all for freedom as long as it's our kind of freedom.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Hold on a bloody minute. You say you aren't touching the abortion issue with a ten foot pole, but come up with this? Again, the ONLY thing this law does is clarify that any child who is completely out of his or her mother, and who shows any signs of life, is afforded equal rights. If you have a problem with your legal requirements with your required care for neonates, I suggest you take it up with the legislation that addresses it. This is the same lame argument that the fair traders try to make.

I didn't make any value judgment on abortion, good, bad or otherwise.

So that I may more effectively take it up with our legislators, please let me know what the accepted standards are regarding the delivery of care to extremely premature neonates. What I don't think you understand is that there is no consensus regarding the care of these fragile little souls, therefore, I am not sure on what equality is based upon. It is especially difficult to determine what constitutes equal care when comparing a neonate who is simply born early against one who has just undergone intentional injury yet survives.

 

[6thGen]

i don't care for abortion, but i don't want the state to dictate policy over someone's body...it's a typical repub play. we are all for freedom as long as it's our kind of freedom.

I don't know when life begins. I know it is sometime after coitus, and sometime before birth. I believe we should err on the side of caution when deciding who makes the decision on another innocent life. It is not an issue of choice, inarguably in the third trimester when a "reasonable" time to choose has passed, assuming you believe there should be a reasonable time. It is a civil rights issue.

 

[rapunzel]

A quick googling of this subject brings up the alternate title of this bit of propaganda -- Why Jesus Would Not Vote for Barack Obama. Since Jesus mentioned serving the least among us thousands of times in my Bible, and his opposition to abortion zero times, I think it is sort of presumptuous of the author to assume Jesus was a single issue voter.

This exchange shows just why some decisions should be between a doctor and patient. When people try to find a backdoor to get what they want, they often end up creating some horrible legislation that has no bearing on the real world, such as BAIPA. Elective abortions are generally performed in the first trimester, before a woman begins to show and far before the fetus would be viable. The late abortions that would normally result in a fetus born alive are usually performed to save the mother, and normally everything possible is done to save the baby. This is a waste of time and taxpayer money to legislate a cure for a problem that really doesn't exist.

It's interesting to me that these special interest groups are willing to try to trick the electorate, and waste legislators time as they try to deflect a election time attack and everyone fiddles as Rome burns.

 

[Jdarg]

A quick googling of this subject brings up the alternate title of this bit of propaganda -- Why Jesus Would Not Vote for Barack Obama. Since Jesus mentioned serving the least among us thousands of times in my Bible, and his opposition to abortion zero times, I think it is sort of presumptuous of the author to assume Jesus was a single issue voter.

This exchange shows just why some decisions should be between a doctor and patient. When people try to find a backdoor to get what they want, they often end up creating some horrible legislation that has no bearing on the real world, such as BAIPA. Elective abortions are generally performed in the first trimester, before a woman begins to show and far before the fetus would be viable. The late abortions that would normally result in a fetus born alive are usually performed to save the mother, and normally everything possible is done to save the baby. This is a waste of time and taxpayer money to legislate a cure for a problem that really doesn't exist.

It's interesting to me that these special interest groups are willing to try to trick the electorate, and waste legislators time as they try to deflect a election time attack and everyone fiddles as Rome burns.

Thank you! All this spin on situations that are not really elective abortions. The prolife movement really wants people to believe that late term abortions are happening all the time and are flip decisions made by women who forgot to use birth control- nice try, but so not the true and complete story. Most involve situations where the health of the mother is at risk, or the baby has too many health issues to survive to full term, or much past it.

Obama was SO right on this one, giving me even more confidence in his judgment.