Best article yet on health reform

[Dominoes]

Example: reagan talking about a "welfare queen from the south side of chicago". No mention of skin color. Clear intent.

But hey if you want to be disingenuous that's fine. Even if I were to grant that there is no racial subtext to the letter whatsoever (there is, especially considering the audience it was intended for), it's pretty clear the image being used is there for a reason. It's because it stirs contempt in certain types of people who want to put an "undeserving" face on those who will be helped by serious reform.

And it's funny because the subject of the letter gets medicaid, and will no matter whether reform passes or not. So why is he even bringing it up? It seems to me reform is aimed at better coverage for the self-employed and the middle class and those with pre-existsing conditions. So the example is misleading at best.

Quote: I read that the Senate proposal will assure 94% of people are insured - up from the 83% currently insured. I don't think that's much bang for the buck or for the re-working of the entire system.

Maybe this is part of your problem, because I bet that 11% feels like it's pretty worthwhile.

For those of you who wish to read the deleted letter that I had posted, here is the link snopes.com: Dr. Starner Jones
You can see what kurt was trying to suppress.

The whole point of the letter is not the racial stereotype it is the failure of an individial to make good decisions. The left cannot get past it seeming like a racist image, when the point is look at what this individual has chosen to spend my money on with the check they got from Uncle Sam. Whether this individual is causasian, asian, afr-am., indian, etc. their life choices are horrible and I should not be paying for it.

the cost of a new gold tooth : 200-2000 depending on who made it. the cost of a new cell phone yearly: 500-2000 depending on type the cost of smoking and drinking regularly: 2000 a year
the cost of the tattoos: 200-1000 per tattoo depending on quality

the cost of a single woman to have good health insurance with BCBS: $3000 per year.

The point is that this woman has spent our money on non-necessities that could have paid for her own health insurance.

Your point about Medicaid is flawed because both the House and Senate bills raise the income threshhold for Medicaid eligibility and is going to increase medicaid enrollment substantially. Medicaid is a state program that is being given an unfunded federal mandate in these bills and the states will have to raise taxes to pay for the additional enrollees. It is the genius behind making the plans "deficit neutral" for the federal budget. It is not deficit neutral for the individual states.

 

[steyou]

we are alone in industrialized nations in our lack of universal health care

We do not need UHC. Just a tweak in our current policies. Do you need more information Bob or do u want to stay on the left with Obama. Simple question. How is the change so far for you.

 

[Kayak Fish]

How much do R&B ringtones cost dominoes? Why was that information important then? And how does the doc know the woman in question smokes a pack a day and has plenty of money for beer? Either you are being disingenuous or you're just willingly blind.

But all that aside, should we simply let all people who make bad decisions die? Your argument probably flies with many in America where the almighty buck is king, but most of the civilized world is beyond this type of thinking and for good reason. You're rationalizing why some people are not worthy of medical treatment and health care is simply a commodity. I view things differently.

A woman spends maybe 1500 bucks on non essentials over who knows how many years and you are outraged that she gets your tax dollars. Our governent spends hundreds of billions on pre-emptive war and I reckon you hardly bat an eye. No one likes waste and abuse- but it's a reality of social safety nets. For better or worse, we've decided that such things have a place in America.

 

[Kurt]

For those of you who wish to read the deleted letter that I had posted, here is the link snopes.com: Dr. Starner Jones
You can see what kurt was trying to suppress.

As I stated above - it was deleted because you posted a part of the letter without reference or link. Without external reference or an explanation of what it was, it didn't look like an external doc, it looked like something you wrote and nothing but a troll post.

Now that I see the context it is obvious that none of us want to pay for tattoos, cigarettes, gold teeth, etc. no matter who the person is or what their skin color. In a society where we decide to take care of each other there are going to be some who take advantage. The system needs to be fixed so that people who actually need health care get it. And that it is fair for everyone. Our education and values have shrunk so much that it may not be possible to eliminate cheaters and users.

Isn't health care a moral issue? Don't both sides claim the moral high ground? Aren't both immoral if they don't take care of the people who elected them?

 

[Dominoes]

How much do R&B ringtones cost dominoes? Why was that information important then? And how does the doc know the woman in question smokes a pack a day and has plenty of money for beer? Either you are being disingenuous or you're just willingly blind.

But all that aside, should we simply let all people who make bad decisions die? Your argument probably flies with many in America where the almighty buck is king, but most of the civilized world is beyond this type of thinking and for good reason. You're rationalizing why some people are not worthy of medical treatment and health care is simply a commodity. I view things differently.

A woman spends maybe 1500 bucks on non essentials over who knows how many years and you are outraged that she gets your tax dollars. Our governent spends hundreds of billions on pre-emptive war and I reckon you hardly bat an eye. No one likes waste and abuse- but it's a reality of social safety nets. For better or worse, we've decided that such things have a place in America.

Its called a medical history. You ask the patient if they smoke and drink and do illicit drugs. Any good clinician asks those questions. The doctor may even ask what brand and types of alcohol they use.

National defense is an obvious role of government, health care is not. Please find somewhere in the constitution where health care is a right. What is your profession? I am sure you would like it if the government found it to be a right and not a commodity. I am sure the folks at our local pizza joint would be thrilled to give away pizza for free to all if the government mandated it. They could just let those who chose to pay be nice enough to pay $20 a slice subsidize the dining of the freeloaders. After all isn't food a more primary need than health care???

 

[Dominoes]

As I stated above - it was deleted because you posted a part of the letter without reference or link. Without external reference or an explanation of what it was, it didn't look like an external doc, it looked like something you wrote and nothing but a troll post.

Now that I see the context it is obvious that none of us want to pay for tattoos, cigarettes, gold teeth, etc. no matter who the person is or what their skin color. In a society where we decide to take care of each other there are going to be some who take advantage. The system needs to be fixed so that people who actually need health care get it. And that it is fair for everyone. Our education and values have shrunk so much that it may not be possible to eliminate cheaters and users.

Isn't health care a moral issue? Don't both sides claim the moral high ground? Aren't both immoral if they don't take care of the people who elected them?

There is an article in today's Panama City News Herald about Medicaid, quoting our state Senator Don Gaetz. Now he who is the most thoughtful, intelligent elected official I have ever had the pleasure to meet, went to Washington concerned about the unfunded mandate about to be placed on our state and they tag him as a proponent of doing away with Medicaid... unbelievable!!! He has been an advocate for Medicaid and was crucial in preventing cuts in the program this year when every other part of the state budget was cut due to the state budget crisis.

Anyone in this debate who brings up the fact that the costs are going to spiral out of control and quality of care will have to decline to prevent that is labelled as uncaring for the poor and needy. Somebody will have to pay for this new entitlement spending and our government needs to get out of health care and focus on reviving small business or we are going to be stuck at 12% unemployment for the next decade.

 

[Winnie]

Winnie, I see the problem here. The post I was talkig about was deleted (probably by the moderator for the racial subtext it contained). This happened after I made my first post about underlying racism. I just assumed the post was still in the thread, so likely having not read the post in question, you were not being disingenuos. I can see why there would be massive confusion about why I would find racism in the original article- I certainly don't find a thing racist about that. Dominoes posted something that is no longer here.

So we are arguing about two completely different things and are therefore both right imo. (Except about health care policy, where only one of us is right and I suppose we can guess who each of us thinks it is).

I see.

Since Dominoes re-posted a link, I read the letter. It sounds to me like the point of the letter was the doctors frustration with irresponsible behavior. I prefer to give people the benefit of any doubt.

 

[scooterbug44]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't have any gold teeth or tattoos, my cell phone is the cheapest plan available w/ the default ringtone, I don't smoke, rarely drink beer, and my sneakers were cheap when I bought them on sale at the outlet store.

And I'm white.

So NOW what is the excuse du jour for denying me affordable medical care?

P.S. I also exercise daily, grow some of my own food, and haven't missed a preventative gyno, dental, annual, innoculation, vision check in my life. And I have been working since I was 12. PUCK IT!

 

[Dominoes]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't have any gold teeth or tattoos, my cell phone is the cheapest plan available w/ the default ringtone, I don't smoke, rarely drink beer, and my sneakers were cheap when I bought them on sale at the outlet store.

And I'm white.

So NOW what is the excuse du jour for denying me affordable medical care?

P.S. I also exercise daily, grow some of my own food, and haven't missed a preventative gyno, dental, annual, innoculation, vision check in my life. And I have been working since I was 12. SUCK IT!

If what you post is true, I am pretty sure you can afford coverage. $3600 a year for average white female age 40 with BCBS of florida. THis is a plan with low copays and rx coverage. My employees pay an average of $1500 out of pocket while I pay $2500 per employee. Without a federal mandate, I provide coverage to all those who contribute to the success of my business.

I really don't think your race is a factor in the debate. Perhaps a 2nd job, better paying job, or one with a better benefits package would work out for you.

The vitriole in your last line is hardly appropriate.

 

[scooterbug44]

Actually, I find it very appropriate - I am REALLY tired of everyone who wants health care reform or who can't get health insurance being depicted as a deadbeat crack whore or an illegal alien.

All of the comments I posted were direct responses to YOUR link.

Not saying the current proposal is the solution, but there is a SEVERE need for reform.