Bridge Addition for US HWY 331

Now I am confused, just found out the handout they gave us at the meeting last night was incorrect. It is $102 million that the State is comitted.

 

Not a single number on that handout was correct. It's Obvious they have not thought this through or they are incompetent.

:mad:

 

Are you saying that Bill lied to us on his handout? I don't think so. The county's share is a 75 million match for DOT's grant of 177 million. You are getting 102 million in construction funds for our 75 million, if you want to look at it that way. I don't like spending money anymore than the next person but I think it is disingenuous for the WCTA to paint this expenditure of tax funds in the the light they have chosen to do. Oh, and by the way, I am a paid up member of the WCTA and so is my wife. Progress is a strange thing. It requires that someone pay for it.

 

[h=1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Andy,[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Prior informational sessions by the “Blue Ribbon Panel” stated clearly and unambiguously that the total funds involved were in the amount of $177 mil, 102 from FL, 75 from Walton. Please feel free to ask Bonnie McQuiston to verify that fact. She has done so earlier today. Either the Panel was provided wrong information, or the numbers given by Mr. Imfeld Th night were incorrect. If the latter, the remainder of his numbers were obligatorily wrong.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Based on unambiguous information in hand, it may be fairly stated that Mr. Kisela was at best evasive in stating that he first came to know of this in the Dec BCC meeting. As Bob stated at the Th meeting, there is an email in his possession that is dated in Sept which clearly states that Mr. Kisela met with DOT officials and proposed himself that should Walton County come up with 20-25% of the funding for the bridge, would the state be willing to partner with the county in building the bridge.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]There are those who would suggest that a half-truth is an untruth. The timeline belies the public statements of county officials, unequivocally so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I think there are few who don’t want the bridge. There are however legitimate concerns being raised about the manner in which this particular campaign is being conducted.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The sense of urgency and the dissembling about the origins of this proposal in aid of creating this sense of urgency lead directly to the suspicion that we are being deceived, hardly a unique experience with our county government.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The evacuation benefits to be gained are as yet not demonstrated. What is known, however, is that Walton has never in recorded history suffered a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane, and that Walton County has never experienced a single death related to evacuation from a hurricane. Given the acknowledged continued existence of other choke points for traffic north of the Bay and the bridge, and further given the total lack of commitment by the DOT, not to mention Alabama, to widen the roads and freeway entrances, it is reasonable to assume that a bridge will do little toward public safety in evacuation scenarios and would only move the choke point negligibly north.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Day to day public safety and convenience factors far outweigh the probable miniscule hurricane-related advantages of a 4-lane bridge, and economic benefits at the margin are also much larger considerations. However, the net economic benefits are likely to be both smaller and in the longer term (for major benefits, at least) for South Walton in particular. Given the price of real estate and given the relative paucity of private land south of the Bay, and further given the likelihood of a continued significantly depressed real estate market and depressed availability of funds for real estate developments on a large scale, I doubt that making access easier to an already choked Hwy 98 is going to do much for economic development and jobs in the near to intermediate term.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]We are not operating in a vacuum here, and there are some monstrous threats to the world economy looming in the near term. How well they are addressed remains to be seen, but the record of most governments around the world and here at home gives me scant reason for optimism. How about you?[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]We have had the right to raise our own taxes in this fashion since 2010. It’s legitimate to ask if this is the right time and the right project. No one is debating desirability inhering in 4-laning the bridge. What is being contested is the legitimacy of the process and priorities for our tax dollars, not to mention the putative benefits. I suspect the question will be put to the voters, and I’m absolutely in favor of that.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]What I am not in favor of is our leadership deceiving us, and it appears to me that there is a strong likelihood, if not in fact a certainty, that such is the case. I think what we are hearing is that Walton County government has lost the confidence of the people, and deservedly so. It has certainly lost mine.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The state has not heaped honor upon itself in this matter either. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been diverted from the Trust Fund (Wonder why they don’t call them Distrust Funds?) and given to other uses than the roads and bridges they were intended to fund. The State insists that Walton County guarantee $75 mil for this bridge to perhaps nowhere, the whole while promising Walton county nothing as respects 4-laning 331 north of the bridge beyond what is already underway. A 5 year aspiration of DOT? Try taking that one to get bonded or used as collateral for bank financing. Better yet, work up a full comedy routine around it.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The folks north of the Bay are potential beneficiaries of 4-laning 331 and building the bridge, but until such time as 331 is 4-lane to the bridge from DeFuniak or I-10, the bridge will be of little net benefit to them. To suggest a toll bridge without toll booths, relying on the mail and threats to tourists, is perhaps the most asinine proposal of modern times. A toll would also be incredibly destructive of the interests of residents north of the Bay, which in turn would be destructive of the interests of all in Walton County.[/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]And let’s not leave out the bed tax collectors and the businesses dependent on the tourists they serve. Walton is already uncompetitive in its tax rates, most of all for bed tax collectors. We are already higher than our neighbors in Bay and Okaloosa Counties. In the age of the internet and VRBO and an economy in poor shape, we stand to lose business to our neighboring counties, not to mention other areas of FL and other states consequent to the comparative costs. In a perfect world, Walton County would kick some serious butt in a competition for tourist dollars. We have some of the most beautiful beaches in the world around which to build a tremendous tourist experience. It’s not, never has been, and never will be a perfect world. We must compete on cost, too.
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I was reading an article earlier today which caught my eye. The new Porsche 911 S! Whoa! Could I evacuate more quickly with that? Would my purchasing the car, the gas, the insurance, the service have favorable impacts on the economy? Would that baby make the part of Walton County where it might be seen sitting or zooming about more attractive? Yes, yes, and yes! Would I love to have one? Hell, yes! Can I afford one? Sadly, no. Would my wife think it okay for me to borrow the money to satisfy those urges, justifying the action to her by saying I want it, it has the benefits noted above, and besides, FL DOT says it’s their goal to make 331 a 4-lane autobahn in 5 years, and these 911s are only going to get more expensive? What would your wife say?

Mine, too.[/FONT][/h]

 

Andy my reference was to the sheet handed out dealing with the cost to citizens for a toll ($750.00 when if you take what the state said the toll would be it's $500.00 and if you heard Kitty the cost for a 1% sales tax is not $213.00 it's $213.00 per household member - the calculations were based on the average house hold composition of 2.4 people - which means the project cost should have been 2.4 times $213.00 or $511.20. Kitty also agreed with me that the houldshold income that those numbers were based on was 37K per year. For most residents who live south of the bay that number is very unrealistic. The more spendable income the more "taxable items" people buy.

Those numbers are what most people base their decision on in a tax or toll decision and they are at best misleading and at worst skewed to alter the true costs.

I have no qualms with Bill Imfelds sheet that dealt with bank loan cost projections and various bond structures and loan and bond periods.

When I borrow $75million dollars I think I have the right to know straight answers to simple questions.

Why can't they get the number right ? Larry, Daryl and Daryl need to get the story straight.

 

83 Million and Counting

This item is buried within the Consent Agenda items which will once again mean "No Public Comment"

It appears based on this submission form that without most people knowing the BCC is now tentatively agreeing to a Bank Loan of 8.5 million dollars to match a Tiger Grant if we were selected to receive.

This would be in addition to the 75 million we are being asked to fund to build the bridge and would appear to conflict with statements made that the "State" was committed to complete the balance of 4-lane Hwy 331 to the I-!0 connector.

Once you "kick-in" the process continues over and over for each section of 331. We were told the other night that the State was committed to 4-Lane the balance of 331 if we contributed $75 million. Now we know that we are on the hook for even more debt if this grant is approved. The state is paving it with our money once again.

This would bring the debt load increase to 83 Million dollars if we received the Tiger Grant.

No other source of revenue for repayment other than from "Property Taxes" would appear to be available.

If Walton County approves a 75 million dollar loan or bond and we were to receive the Tiger Grant and then be forced to secure a Bank loan of 8.5 million you would carry the debt load in Walton County from $30,725 million to $113,725 million dollars.

This would raise the per capita debt from $555 dollars to $2106.00.

This represents a growth of 280% in one year.


That is worse than the National debt growth !

COUNTY DEPARTMENT
SUBMISSION FORM BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WALTON COUNTY, FLORIDA
Requested Meeting Date:
February 14, 2012
Meeting Location:
SW Annex Courthouse
Submission Deadline:
February 2, 2012

County Department: Public Works Contact Person: Greg Kisela

TOPIC:
Tiger IV Grant application to add lanes and reconstruct the segment of US 331 South from SR 20 to Owl's Head Road.

REQUESTED ACTION:
Request permission to apply for a (design and build) Tiger IV Grant for US 331 South with a County match of $8,500,000.00 to be funded through a bank loan.

SUMMARY EXPLANATION OR HISTORY:
Walton County has the opportunity to apply for a Tiger IV Discretionary Grant to four-lane the section of US 331 South from SR 20 in Freeport to Owl's Head Road in Freeport. A funds match of $8,500,000.00 would be necessary if Walton County is awarded the grant. These funds would be made available through a bank loan.

MATERIAL/EXHIBITS ATTACHED:
ADMINISTRATION CONTACT INFORMATION:
Name: Dede Hinote, Executive Assistant
Phone: 850-892-8155
Fax: 850-892-8454
Email: hindede@co.walton.fl.us
Address: PO Box 1355, DeFuniak Springs, FL 32435

 

83 Million and Counting

This item is buried within the Consent Agenda items which will once again mean "No Public Comment"

It appears based on this submission form that without most people knowing the BCC is now tentatively agreeing to a Bank Loan of 8.5 million dollars to match a Tiger Grant if we were selected to receive.

This would be in addition to the 75 million we are being asked to fund to build the bridge and would appear to conflict with statements made that the "State" was committed to complete the balance of 4-lane Hwy 331 to the I-!0 connector.

Once you "kick-in" the process continues over and over for each section of 331. We were told the other night that the State was committed to 4-Lane the balance of 331 if we contributed $75 million. Now we know that we are on the hook for even more debt if this grant is approved. The state is paving it with our money once again.

This would bring the debt load increase to 83 Million dollars if we received the Tiger Grant.

No other source of revenue for repayment other than from "Property Taxes" would appear to be available.

If Walton County approves a 75 million dollar loan or bond and we were to receive the Tiger Grant and then be forced to secure a Bank loan of 8.5 million you would carry the debt load in Walton County from $30,725 million to $113,725 million dollars.

This would raise the per capita debt from $555 dollars to $2106.00.

This represents a growth of 280% in one year.


That is worse than the National debt growth !

COUNTY DEPARTMENT
SUBMISSION FORM BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WALTON COUNTY, FLORIDA
Requested Meeting Date:
February 14, 2012
Meeting Location:
SW Annex Courthouse
Submission Deadline:
February 2, 2012

County Department: Public Works Contact Person: Greg Kisela

TOPIC:
Tiger IV Grant application to add lanes and reconstruct the segment of US 331 South from SR 20 to Owl's Head Road.

REQUESTED ACTION:
Request permission to apply for a (design and build) Tiger IV Grant for US 331 South with a County match of $8,500,000.00 to be funded through a bank loan.

SUMMARY EXPLANATION OR HISTORY:
Walton County has the opportunity to apply for a Tiger IV Discretionary Grant to four-lane the section of US 331 South from SR 20 in Freeport to Owl's Head Road in Freeport. A funds match of $8,500,000.00 would be necessary if Walton County is awarded the grant. These funds would be made available through a bank loan.

MATERIAL/EXHIBITS ATTACHED:
ADMINISTRATION CONTACT INFORMATION:
Name: Dede Hinote, Executive Assistant
Phone: 850-892-8155
Fax: 850-892-8454
Email: hindede@co.walton.fl.us
Address: PO Box 1355, DeFuniak Springs, FL 32435

 

From wzepAM

What promises were made, what is the FDOT saying they will do and what are others doing. Some are also saying the FDOT wants a match to build the bridge or they will pull all highway funds. While Walton County has been working to see U.S. 331 widened for around 50 years now, the FDOT is widening some parts of the road and have plans for other parts. They also want the bridge widened sooner than later and have told Walton County they will expedite funds for a second bridge if the county comes up with a $75 million match.

The state transportation only gave Walton until May to decide if they want the bridge widened sooner or want to wait until future funds are available. The FDOT says budgeting has changed and the days of full funding are gone. Local governments are now asked to participate in funding some projects. Since the FDOT has to turn in a budget by June, the decision has to be made now. The state and district three secretaries said the match is required for funds to stay on the project in Walton and they do not tell the local government where to get the money from. If the new bridge is wanted sooner than later, the state says it needs the $75 million or an agreement to allow them to place a toll.

The Walton Commissioners tasked a group of residents with making a recommendation on how to fund the project. The committee, administered by Walton TDC Director Dawn Moliterno who did not vote, agreed to recommend the commissioners take the funding question to the voters.

The exact question will be if the voters want to increase the sales tax in Walton up to 1 cent. Commissioners will have to decide if they want to take the question to the voters and at what percentage. If Walton uses the full one cent, it will make the county the highest sales tax county in the state. If the commissioners do not take the question to the polls, or the voters say no, then they will have to decide of they want the toll or not. If there is no toll, if there is not sales tax approved, and if there is no $75 million match, then the FDOT says it will use the funds designated for the bridge elsewhere.

At a meeting with the state and local transportation secretaries, the Walton Commissioners were told the state wants to see U.S. 331 widened to I-10. They also said the bridge is part of that widening and there are funds available, but Walton will have to have the $75 million match. A sales tax or toll can be used as a dedicated source for a bond or loan. The commissioners were told they need Walton to show them and others wanting to invest that the county is serious about seeing the road widened.

The section south of the bridge is already at four lanes. The section north of the bridge to Highway 20 is funded and currently in the process of being made four lanes. The bridge needs to be made four lanes to make the road wider all the way to Highway 20. The section near Freeport has a new two lane road and is ready for an additional two lanes. A small section just north of that is being worked on now through a joint County/State project. The rest has some plans, but the funds are not currently in the short term budgeting. Walton was told by the state that if they help with the bridge, then the state will find more funds quicker to complete the widening to I-10. No guarantee was made funds will come, only that the state knows the need and wants to see the project move quicker than what is in the current budgeting and work plan. The FDOT says the bridge is needed now to take advantage of the lower construction costs currently available.

Walton Commissioner Sara Comander told WZEP she understands the FDOT is asking for the $75 million match and will pull money from the bridge portion if it is not met. She also says she has the impression the state saying the funds will be taken elsewhere likely also means any other attempts to fund the remaining portion could be delayed.

The state has indicated it has funds to complete the second bridge so there will be four lanes to Highway 20. At Highway 20 travelers can go east, west or north. At this point there are two north routs to I-10, U.S. 331 and Highway 81. Walton was told the bridge and commitment by Walton is needed to keep them working on expediting the funds for further expansion.

In several meetings, many in the public have said there is a need and they are willing to add up to the one cent to the sales tax. This would be paid off in about 10 years for a penny or just over 20 years with half a cent. Half a cent would not make Walton the highest sale tax county. Over half the sales tax is paid by the tourist industry sales. A lot less say there should be a user fee, rather a toll. It is pointed out a toll would be operated by the state, would be at least 30 years with no guarantee it would ever come off and could increase. Quite a few have also said the county should not fund the bridge at all. Some say that Walton has been asking for years and surrounding counties have had projects paid for with no match. Other question the very need for an additional two lanes right now.

Recently Escambia County, Walton’s neighbor to the west, was also asked to pay a match for a new Pensacola Bay Bridge. The Pensacola News Journal reports the Escambia Commissioners approved a resolution opposing the state toll to help pay for replacing the structurally deficient bridge. They also plan to ask local cities and the local TPO to also approve resolutions. The Escambia commissioners say, “The bridge has been a free connection and is the only connection between South Escambia and South Santa Rosa counties.” The Escambia Commissioners say the public should not have to pay to cross the bridge.

Like Walton, the bridge is the only connection. Other local toll bridges have been built, but they offer a quicker connection and a second connection. Tuesday afternoon, when the Walton Commissioners meet, they will have to decide what to tell the voters, taxpayers, visitors and the state.

 

With pay-by-plate, you can either set up an online account and get e-mail notification when you need to pay a toll or just let them mail it to you. If they have to mail it to you, they hit you up with like a $2-$3 'convenience fee' for every envelope they sent to you. Not so bad for the vacationers from Houston, but the whole point if to push the regulars into the Sunpass or similar system. (Which works well in my experience, but it's annoying not to have a cash option.)

 

Thanks for the hard work reconstructing this thread.

It was worth the effort !

 

>>>If Walton County approves a 75 million dollar loan or bond and we were to receive the Tiger Grant and then be forced to secure a Bank loan of 8.5 million you would carry the debt load in Walton County from $30,725 million to $113,725 million dollars.

This would raise the per capita debt from $555 dollars to $2106.00.<<<<


At the meeting last week, both Mr. Imfield and Mr.Kisela addressed this issue.

The proposed bond would not be an general obligation of Walton County but would be solely supported by sales tax revenue.

This may help clear up misconceptions.

http://www.msrb.org/msrb1/glossary/view_def.asp?param=REVENUEBOND

Revenue bonds are payable from identified sources of revenue and do not permit the bondholders to compel taxation or legislative appropriation of funds not pledged for payment of debt service

Unless the indenture allows it, Walton County taxpayers are not on the hook.

 

Please help me out, Buz. The bond would be supported by what sales tax revenue??
Isn't our sales tax revenue all already spoken for?
Am I missing something here?

 

The recommendation to the BCC is for an additional 1% sales tax to fund a 75M bond issue.

The security for the bond is the projected revenue stream and the underlying asset assuming debt payments could not be made.

According to Bill Imfeld and Grey Kisela the bond would be a revenue bond and not a general obligation of Walton County.

I have seen revenue bonds where the municipal body was a secondary obligator but I take Kisela and Imfeld at their word so the bond issue does not add to the debt burden of Walton County because we ain't on the hook.

I will certainly defer to a municipal accounting expert.

 

Now I am really confused. I knew about the proposed 1% to fund the 75m. What I was asking
about is the additional 8.5m. Are we funding that with the 1% sales tax also?
(assuming it passes)

 

8.5 million was tied to other road construction but it was some type of grant and it was unclear if we would qualify.

The BCC rejected it.

On the other issue, the BCC approved language sending a 1/2 cent tax for voter referendum in April.

 

Buz this document might be of interest to your understanding of how the accounting world looks at long term debt and how it is disclosed in financial reports and audits.

 

I appreciate y'all sorting this out.

WZEP AM1460

Dawn Moliterno was tasked by the commissioners to work on widening U.S. 331. Meetings she had with the FDOT District 3 Barfield resulted in finding out about a plan to add a second bridge and make it a toll bridge unless the county can come up with $75 million. Moliterno said the bridge is a bottleneck and must be fixed. The highway south of the bridge has four lanes. The second north to Highway 20 is under construction for four lanes.



A task force was created and recommended taking a sales tax increase off to the voters that is only for funding the needed $75 million and would sunset once it was paid.



Moliterno read a letter from Barfield saying the FDOT is experiencing a reduction in funds. The cost of a new bridge is $177 million and the FDOT has $102 million planned for the budget. The $75 million is required by the FDOT and once the bridge is built Barfield said they would work to get the rest of the highway to I-10 widened.



Moliterno said Barfield commented on the recent request for assistance funding from Escambia County for a bridge. Barfield says this is different since that bridge is a replacement of an existing bridge, not for a new bridge.



Commissioner Larry Jones noted the FDOT is looking for additional funds. He said he does not support a toll. Jones says the tolling is not an option. He said if the commissioners go to a referendum then it can pass or fail, but they will not accept a toll. Jones amended his motion to also ask the state to seek other funding if a referendum is turned down.



Several people spoke, some saying the toll is the way to go and some against the toll. Others spoke against either toll or tax. Bob Hudson thanked Jones for his motion, saying they can now concentrate on getting clear numbers. Several others spoke and understanding the whole issue seemed to be a problem.



J.B. Hillard charged that the commissioners went out and brokered a deal with the state to fund part of the bridge. He also questioned why the additional two lanes are needed now. Hillard said there are no numbers presented as to the need. He also said there is a need for four lanes to help north Walton, that south Walton is growing. Commissioner Comander said they have been working with the state, even begging and pleading, but to her knowledge there has been no deal brokered. Bonnie McQuiston asked the commissioners to tell the FDOT they want the original deal, to widen 331 to I-10. J.W. Adkinson talked against the increase in sales tax. Adkinson said he and others have worked hard since 1962 to get the road widened. He said he hopes Walton does not become the highest sales tax county in the state.



The motion to not use a toll to fund the portion FDOT is requesting from Walton and to continue to look for other funding passed. Jones also made a motion that if a sales tax is used, then is can not be changed or extended unless another referendum is passed by the voters. This also passed.



A question was asked about property needed to bring the new bridge to land. The FDOT takes care of right-of-way and their report shows they will take care of it. Lloyd Blue, said the FDOT has already acquired property on the south end.



Finance Director Bill Imfeld says they could use either bank borrowing or bonding. He said the one cent would pay off in 7 years and cost $14 million. If they go with ¾ of penny then it could be paid off in about 10 years. Half a penny would take about 18 years. The more years, the higher interest will be paid. He said they should not go below one half cent. The Walton Commissioners agreed to call for a special election referendum for half a cent. Commissioner Sara Comander said the choice should up to the voters of the county. The vote will be April 24th.

 

Campaign begins !!

 

The Deal

Here's the deal....
No tax....No Toll....
The line has been drawn in the sand....Our bunch looks forward to the April referendum..... As an early retiree, I am opposed to anyyyy!!!! sales tax/toll. Again, I try not to traverse over the current bridge. Quite frankly, our family would rather go by boat from the north end....The question stills remains unanswered why our neighbors to the east continue to receive infrastructure improvement without increased taxation.

There are those of us who have lived here forever that have asked that this bridge be built many years ago. One can remember the old wooden bridge and all the trauma of the structure being decimated by the barges. I would love to hear from the local legislative delegation regarding the issue (that includes the Gaetz family).

Rock on,
Rocketman