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Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
6thGen, glad to see you back. Its nice to have a breath of fresh air on this very leftist board. If not "fresh" at least a different approach and philosophy.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
I just want to throw a few things in here, if they?ve already been addressed I?ll offer my apologies because I am not enough of a masochist to read through this thread.

1. Obama?s plan to sit down with leaders and confront them with honest conversation loses all credibility when he lacks either the conviction or backbone to stand up to his pastor and mentor.

2. Until we purge the Rev. Wrights? and Farrakhan?s and to a lesser extent the Jesse?s and Al?s, the same way we purged David Duke and Trent Lott, I don?t think we?ll be able to have an honest discussion about race.
3. Speaking of an honest discussion, the comments about Obama opening up the lines of communication are laughable. To paraphrase a few other authors, we?ve been having an honest discussion for years. Did anyone see Crash?

4. If we really want to pin the blame, we should blame Johnson for signing the Voting Rights Act, or at least Section 5, and Bush for signing to renew it. Emerging black politicians will continue to be handicapped by not having to appeal to the populace or white voters. Black Caucus replaces Black Caucus, and ?most black? wins. That formula doesn?t work in a general.



Okay here we go. I will respond to your points.

1. I think Obama has addressed the Revs comments. He gave a very honest speech on the topic. You also mistake his possible strategy. Perhaps it was politically prudent for him to align himself with this Rev.
Don't forget that he needs black votes and to hang this guy out to dry to appeal to the far right would lose him more votes than he would win.

To simplify for you: take the parallel of John McCain bashing Pat Robertson and Falwell and now flip flopping to support and even speak at Liberty University. He made the same political calculation that it would gain him more votes and people who are alienated by his about face were not going to vote for him anyway.


2. On your second point I am not sure what you mean by purge ? Kill? Ignore? I again assume you wish for the same for the Christian Right leaders who spew the same vitriolic hate. If your point is to remove the extremists on both sides then I would agree with you but it is not very likely to occur in a free society.


3. Not sure what your point is here. If you are comparing a Hollywood movie to a black man running for the Presidency giving a landmark speech on race in our country then I am not sure how to respond.
I am not sure you want to go down the road of using Hollywood offerings to defend your arguments.


4. I have to disagree again with you. I think even you would admit that Obama cannot win the White House without significant white voting support. If anything, I think the right wingers have not had to appeal to any minorities .
 

JustaLocal

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2007
447
49
SRB
True, that cheese. I don't understand why people that criticize this board (and many of the people on it) continue to spend time reading and posting. :dunno:

I don't think AndyA was criticizing. I call All Things Considered on NPR leftist as a description, but love to listen anytime I'm in the car. Not bad - left leaning.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,643
9,473
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
I don't think AndyA was criticizing. I call All Things Considered on NPR leftist as a description, but love to listen anytime I'm in the car. Not bad - left leaning.

JAL - you show a healthy attitude with your post, thanks. SoWal's diversity comes from people of many geographic locations as well as a wide range of life experiences, views, religions, backgrounds, etc. I do appreciate the range of experiences people bring to SoWal.com. I don't appreciate when a member constantly tries to post negative remarks about the board leaning one way. it just shows his/her dissatisfaction with the members themselves. so, in my opinion this is the epitomy of whiney-tail talk.

I adore NPR programs. this is my only real news or entertainment other than sowal.com.

last night, craig ferguson said its April Fool's Day everyday on Fox News.:lolabove:
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Okay here we go. I will respond to your points.

1. I think Obama has addressed the Revs comments. He gave a very honest speech on the topic. You also mistake his possible strategy. Perhaps it was politically prudent for him to align himself with this Rev.
Don't forget that he needs black votes and to hang this guy out to dry to appeal to the far right would lose him more votes than he would win.

To simplify for you: take the parallel of John McCain bashing Pat Robertson and Falwell and now flip flopping to support and even speak at Liberty University. He made the same political calculation that it would gain him more votes and people who are alienated by his about face were not going to vote for him anyway.


2. On your second point I am not sure what you mean by purge ? Kill? Ignore? I again assume you wish for the same for the Christian Right leaders who spew the same vitriolic hate. If your point is to remove the extremists on both sides then I would agree with you but it is not very likely to occur in a free society.


3. Not sure what your point is here. If you are comparing a Hollywood movie to a black man running for the Presidency giving a landmark speech on race in our country then I am not sure how to respond.
I am not sure you want to go down the road of using Hollywood offerings to defend your arguments.


4. I have to disagree again with you. I think even you would admit that Obama cannot win the White House without significant white voting support. If anything, I think the right wingers have not had to appeal to any minorities .


1. No doubt it was politically prudent to align himself with the Reverend. He wouldn?t be hanging him out to dry for the far right, he would hang him out to dry from everyone from the intellectual left rightward. I?d hope most blacks are equally offended by the Reverends comments.

As for McCain, to an extent I agree. However, Obama?s poor judgment for TWENTY years comes to question. He married Obama, baptized his children, was his mentor and political advisor, and inspired the title for his book. This wasn?t a short term political marriage. Again, if he can?t confront his twenty year mentor and closest confidant on such outrageous statements, his conviction to stand up to true enemies and threats (while cutting off other friendly conversations) rings hollow.

2. By purge, I mean purge them from the conversation. It was pretty clear that I didn?t mean kill them since I said in the same way Duke was purged. And yes, that goes for both sides. As for the free society comment, I don?t expect brown shirts to muzzle them, I expect their credibility and newsworthiness on par with fortune tellers, witch doctors and chiropractors.

3. My point is that while the speech was a good one, it wasn?t the starter pistol to a discussion on race relations. We have a black history month, Katrina, The Bell Curve, OJ?s trial, endless University classes, and literally the entire history of our country discussing race relations. Jefferson?s phrases and Franklin?s early and open opposition to slavery should at least get the nod to the US? first discussion on race. My comment on Crash addresses the fact that Hollywood, not exactly early adopters, already awarded an Oscar to a film that took an honest look at race relations and election cycle ago. I?d expect our politicians to be initiating the discussions, not taking their cues from Hollywood. Most clamoring for a new conversation are more longing for offering instruction.

4. Are you familiar with the VRA? At inception, districts were drawn towards race, allowing for more minorities in Congress. To redraw these districts, for whatever reason, shifts the burden of proof on the state to show that it will not have a discriminatory effect. It gives sweeping power and precedent to the courts to maintain black districts as black districts. While it was believed to have been necessary at the time, and there are arguments both ways, it has undoubtedly hurt black politicians in the long run. Black politicians are getting their start in such districts, but to carry them, they are forced to appeal to the blackest common denominator. The blackest common denominator isn?t anywhere near mainstream and the formula doesn?t work in a general election.

As for Obama, of course he needs white support to get to the WH. The problem is he?s hampered by his patronizing of the black districts. As you know, Obama lost a primary to Rush because he was perceived not ?black enough?. In a normally distributed district, he would have distanced himself long, long ago from Wright and his rhetoric. In the southside Chicago district, as the pastor of a 10,000 member church, Wright?s support was necessary. The exact criteria necessary for his start in politics could prove to be his undoing. What is really scary is that there is a 10,000 member church bedrocked on Wright?s comments and Cone?s book that espouses "the destruction of the white enemy." Let?s have an honest discussion about that. Edit - do I beleive Obama espouses those views? Of course not. Will he suffer politically for them? I sure as hell hope he's held accountable.
 
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InletBchDweller

SoWal Insider
Feb 14, 2006
6,802
263
55
Prairieville, La
I do think that it is good to have the far left, the far right, and people somewhere in the middle for good debates on the board. To me, there are more people that post from the "left" but that is ok. That does not mean that I dislike SoWal or the people on it, I am just stating my opinion about my observations ~ just as AndyA was doing. I think that people come back to this board to learn, just as I have.

Rancid and 6th Gen are debating back and forth with 2 different views. I love it. :clap:
 

Missplaced

Beach Lover
Jun 17, 2007
91
6
True, that cheese. I don't understand why people that criticize this board (and many of the people on it) continue to spend time reading and posting. :dunno:


For the same reason segrovegirl (who should be doing her taxes), sandybanks (of the bldg 7 thread) can't stay away and wants you to know he's "one of you guys/gals," and autograph seekers want autographs (from the Sheryl Crow siting thread). Connectedness. Oh, and they're 'dicted! :D
 

seagrovegirl

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2008
3,828
464
Historic Old Point Washington
For the same reason segrovegirl (who should be doing her taxes), sandybanks (of the bldg 7 thread) can't stay away and wants you to know he's "one of you guys/gals," and autograph seekers want autographs (from the Sheryl Crow siting thread). Connectedness. Oh, and they're 'dicted! :D
:dunno:
 
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